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Bravo Fleet Klingon Connection
http://bfkc.batlh.com/cgi-bin/BFKC/YaBB.pl News >> BFKC News >> A little something I engineered. http://bfkc.batlh.com/cgi-bin/BFKC/YaBB.pl?num=1131786825 Message started by K`Hare totlh on Nov 12th, 2005, 9:13am |
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Title: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 12th, 2005, 9:13am For the past few weeks I have been working on something in my spare time. It is the reason I have been so the last couple of days. I got it close to ready and spent my free time, the last few days, making it ready for testing. Now it is. For now, this is just installed on KDB. I can put a copy on the Crazy Horse and/or meHHaj later. I am putting the announcement here because the other ships should have a look at it. There is a catch that wont make sense until you try it out. The files it generates can be as much as 200K. If I leave them around forever, this could quickly eat up my server space. So I will delete the body of the text over time to save space. I will likely delete all the files generated this week because you guys will go crazy with it. For obvious reasons I'd like people to play with it before the next betleH tourney. So have a look. This is what you have to do: 1. Update your KDB bio here: http://kdb.batlh.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?shipname=KDB Simply find your bio entry, click the character pic on the right, enter your password and scroll to the bottom. There are a bunch of new questions on the form. Veterans of the betleH tourney will recognize them. If you have attended a betleH tourney some questions may already have answers. Rechoose each questions and pick from the list. The first answer on a drop down is usally the value you have now. Choose one from the lower on the list this one time. Answer all the questions in the bottom of the form and save your bio. Then go back to the KDB manifest. 2. Once you edit yourself go to the KDB crew manifest. Scroll to the bottom and click the 'I want to spar.' button. There is a simple form. Pick your own character name from the list and enter your password, then submit the form. This adds you to the list of people who will accept challenges. If you get an error, if it say "Check your ..." then go back to your bio and edit yourself again. Something isn't right with your bio. If all else fails, send me a PM and I will check. The most likely problem is that you have old values from the last tourney so rechoose your settings for every betleH question. Also make sure your species is set to something and make sure your age is a number, not text. 3. Now you should be ready to be challenged. Use the left menu to choose the Halls of Kor Sparring Stage. The header for this new area explains some stuff. Any questions, post them back here. The basics should be obvious. Click the make challenge and challenge someone. Read the list of challenges. Check the open challenges and see if anyone has challenged you. If you are challenged, you can click the info button and enter your password on the page you go to. After you are returned to the top page, find that match and see who won. As I said, post any questions here. I wont answer specifics about the combat system but I will answer general ones. P.S. What did ness engineer this week? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by qul`yIt on Nov 12th, 2005, 3:57pm Won't work for me. I just get the site you have the question mark pic saved on. lol |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by James_Hunter on Nov 12th, 2005, 4:50pm Seems to work fine for me, though I'm not sure about the training being linked to what the form calls "age 13 thru 18-20." For Klingons that might be largely training, but most Humans would probably be at school falling asleep in physics. For my part, the "training" is basically "Hunter school blah ambition to be a pilot blah." Obviously the setup has to favour Klingons, but the seperation of training and teenage years, at least for aliens may be better. That aside, it looks pretty cool, although it might be an idea to have the displayed fighter's pic link to their bio. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Nov 12th, 2005, 6:35pm Worked good. qul'yIt not likely to be real high on the score lol, due to how late he was in training. But not going to have him as a Combatant in tourney anyways. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by roS`neQar on Nov 12th, 2005, 6:36pm I am just kind of hanging out there waiting for others to accept now :) A suggestion so that things don't drag is for the person challanged to be sent an email notification based on their forum info. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by So`l_Mackenzie on Nov 12th, 2005, 7:00pm When I go to edit my bio, the new questions are nowhere to be seen. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 12th, 2005, 8:51pm So'l: Are you editing your bio on the KDB crew page? Not the Hegh'ta page, the KDB one. roS: I can't send email based on the forum login because there is no tie between the forum and the bios. I could try to add that but thats a big project. I could send email based on the email address in the bio, are people could make a point to check the page or people could send PMs when they challenge. I fully expect this will get 100 or 200 challenges the first week and it will slow down after that. Eventually, I'd expect the challenges to be tied into game posts so you can just add a note in the scene saying: "BTW, I challenged ta'pez to a duel for the last twinkie or whatever." I know some things can be added and I will be changing the combat system. One thought I had was to add the ability refuse a challenge... but I am not sure how to 'score' that. I just answered my challenges and now I guess everyone knows its not rigged. Hunter beat me! I like how everyone is challenging me to first blood.... |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 12th, 2005, 9:02pm James_Hunter wrote:
It does link the pics from the bio. The avatar is the pic on the cover page. The photo is the pic on the combat page. The idea is people put a small 100x100 pic as their avatar URL and a big pic as there photo. Eventually, I will make something where people can upload one photo and the program will do sizing. Look at K'Hare's bio. The pic on the bio is small. That's the avatar pic. Same one used for the crew manifest but on the manifest it forces it really small. If you click on K'Hare's pic on the bio you get a much bigger pic. Now that I think about it, the combat page might just use the avatar pic. But as long as both your avatar pic and photo (big pic) are defined on the bio, the combat system will display your photo. By default, the bio program puts a question mark as your photo and avatar now. Training is linked to age 13-20 because when I first used the KDB bio program as the bio program for the betleH comp manifest I called the two fields the same thing. I will make them seperate but I wanted to go ahead and put this online. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Nov 12th, 2005, 9:03pm There is a problem. I only just tried the Sparring part and won't take my password for it. Is there supposed to be a different pasword used? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by James_Hunter on Nov 12th, 2005, 9:25pm K`Hare totlh wrote:
James be nimble, James be quick... Just one more question though. I draw your blood, then you disarm me, then I try for a third round and I get, "Stop beating yourself up." ::) These Klingon mind games are more complicated than they appear... |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 12th, 2005, 9:33pm The password that you use to save your bio on the KDB manifest should allow you to make a challenge or allow you to accept a challenge. The stop beating yourself up message comes up when you challenge yourself. You must have picked hunter for both. If you are sure you didn't I can check the code and make sure there isn't a bug. So just try challenging again. Sadly, if you mistype your password or come back to the challenge page (or back up to it) it gets reset so you have to fill everything out again. Unless your browser saves settings. Also, it should list the matches in order of when the challenge was made... so I don't know why the two K'Hare Hunter matches reversed. I will look into that later. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by qul`yIt on Nov 12th, 2005, 9:39pm doesn't work. been using same password. all it does is clear everything so have to chose character again. (keep forgeting to change IDs) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 12th, 2005, 10:12pm Who do you want to challenge? I just grabbed your password from the server (everyone knows I can do that, right? I haven't implemented encrypting them yet) and challenged me. Your password worked. Remember, it is case sensitive. But it worked for me without a problem. From reading the matches it should be obvious now. You gain honor by giving away initiative and by stepping back when your opponent is tired. So your honor setting (and dishonor) give you the chance to win honor but randomness is still in play. In the most recent match with K'Hare you see Hunter was at a disadvantage from the start so he couldn't earn honor. The most honor and glory are gained when the two fighters are closest in skill so each takes turns having the upper hand. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Nov 12th, 2005, 10:20pm Nope. I put in right password two different ways. One gave me Unauthorized message the other just refreshes the page. Won't work for me |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 12th, 2005, 10:45pm I just figured out why Hunter's list at the bottom... it has to do with time zones and the definition of the epoch. His machine is set to time in the future. I will have to work on that... make it use server time instead of client time. I will do that in the wee hours when no one is using it. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 13th, 2005, 1:00am OK. I think I fixed the time problem. Before, the filenames for the challenge were based on the time on your PC. This gets computed based on time your comptuer is set, plus time zone, plus other settings and some of them are OS dependent. So Hunter's time seemed to be 18 hours ahead of everyone else so all his challenges showed up at the bottom. I have changed it now so the time is grabbed on the server. Now new challenges should always go on the bottom of the page. Hunter, I changed the file names of your 3 challenges and fixed the link to them on the BF forum. If you linked anywhere else, then you need to fix the link. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by SajidaKajada on Nov 13th, 2005, 2:28am K'Hare is it possible for you to add Sajida to the mehhaj listing on the site there |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by SajidaKajada on Nov 13th, 2005, 2:33am OMG I CANT FIND MY BIO TOOOO WHERE IS IT BIG DADDY!!!!! *Freakin out officially* |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 13th, 2005, 4:43am I applaud the availability of the option, "As good as Quark". Quark did, after all, achieve victory in two betleH duels... 8-) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 13th, 2005, 5:58am The Quark thing was there since I came up with the combat system for betleH 2... or rather, hacked the one they had. This one is more GURPS or d20 like. You roll to hit and roll to defend. Have I said too much? Saji's bio, copied from betleH III is now on the KDB site. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by SajidaKajada on Nov 13th, 2005, 6:23am Sweetness, thanks sooo much K! |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by SajidaKajada on Nov 13th, 2005, 7:52am I really hope more people add themselves to the list of sparring I just challenged Ing to a Hamburger battle lol (Saji is getting her butt kicked currently) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Tucker on Nov 13th, 2005, 8:25am Hi K'hare I tried to edit my bio and when I type in my password I get the page saying unauthorized , I also find the black text on black background very hard to read on the bio page Could you check your server and see what is up with my pssword, I would like to give the tournement a wirl Thanks in advance, keep up the good work |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 13th, 2005, 4:49pm Hey, how come I'm showing up as "Ing Not Authorized. Rule Breaker"?? "Ing Not Authorized. Rule Breaker. wastes a ggod chance to hit Sajida Kajada." Also note the typo ("ggod") |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 13th, 2005, 7:27pm Ing The Puny wrote:
You are not Authorized if you didn't say yes to your CO approving your attendance to the betleH comp. It needs to be Yes, not 1. That's a change from the old version. This is why I said to edit your settings and rechoose the right answer on all the drop downs. You are a rule breaker if you didn't agree to folllow the rules. Clearly both these questions are for the betleH tourney and don't really apply to KDB. I left them in because the code checks for them. I fixed the typo. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 14th, 2005, 12:26am I made another change but its not fully tested. Now, when you make a challenge you should slect your intended honor. When you accect, you should also choose. This means you can fight one person with great honor and fight another very dirty without changing your bio. If it has trouble, is does your the setting in your bio as the default value. Let me know if anything doesn't work right. The matches that are currently not complete will use the value in your bio when they get answered. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 14th, 2005, 12:30am Tucker wrote:
I sent you a PM. You will need to send me a new password for you so you can edit your bio. The color of the text on your bio is set by a setting in your bio. Once you edit it, you can change it to some color besides black. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 14th, 2005, 1:46am How long is a "Turn" supposed to be? The sparring match between Hunter and Ing lasted 60 turns (559 rounds)... And somehow, Ing won. (I think Hunter just got so tired he dropped his betleH). One other quibble: "Ing catches their breath." Can you read the character's gender from the Bio and appropriately apply "his" / "her"? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by SajidaKajada on Nov 14th, 2005, 3:38am Sajida actually beat Ing lol looks like no hamburger for ya buddy :P |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 14th, 2005, 3:46am Any true Klingon should be able to beat Ing easily under these conditions. I don't know how he managed to beat Hunter. That should not have happened. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by SajidaKajada on Nov 14th, 2005, 3:50am Got lucky? In any case this sparring thing is way fun! Everyone will pick up on this for sure |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 14th, 2005, 3:51am The match list is getting very long. For the Tournament, we're going to need some way to sort / filter things. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 14th, 2005, 6:46am Ing The Puny wrote:
I could read gender from the bio... of course I am still waiting for people to edit their bios and fix other things. Recently when I did the server move I went in, by hand, and fixed all the rank images because most people didn't edit themselves and reselect their rank. I did post and ask people too. The avatar images are read when the challenge is made and many people have broken avatars. I guess I should go in and make gender a simple drop down. I will add that to the list. I didn't do it that way before because I wanted to leave it open for other weirdnesses. I guess I can have male, female, and other and let the medical history sort it out. But their was what I did on short notice. Really this comes down to a bigger issue. How long do I keep the full text of the combat? I am debating ways to make it take up less space. Already the sparring room takes up 2.4 meg. My current thought, if I don't compress the content somehow, is to remove the combat, and just retain the honor gained, and number of turns/rounds... i.e. all but the combat text. Comments? Exactly how this app will be used at the tourney, if its used, is still up in the air. You guys are the beta testers. What do you think? I don't want to say too much about how it works because I don't want people to minimax it. At the same time, you need to know its fair. I can say without question I think it is equitable, but even now, I am not sure its 'fair'. What I mean by that is it treats you the same regardless of which fighter you are or what your combat values are. And the highter your scores and the right answers on some questions will make you consistently better. What I don't know is how often the typical Captain who fills out the form will beat the typical commander or even ensign. I was surprised that roS beat Tak' but I'd have to see what values roS picked. Tak' was supposed to be the typical Klingon captain... i.e. hard to beat. Madur should be not as good. I need to run them against each other 50 times to see how it works out. It could be the randomness overrides the scores and it could be that the higher score wins too much. Assuming I use this at the tourney I will review all the settings by every fighter who is in the tourney. I will try to look at all the attendees too.... to make sure some ensign doesn't claim to be a dahar master and win in the bar fights. But you are right... this will get overwhelming. If this app is used, it will probably be the case that each round the fights will be cleared with some sort of summary page listing the previous rounds. I am open to discussion. Feel free to do it here are start a new one in a seperate thread. But the 3 judges will make the final decision. But we welcome your input. While I don't want to go into specifics because I don't want people to minimax, I can say a few things about the combat. I just added this to the text at the top of the page: Without being too specific about the mechanics, a turn is a group of rounds. Each round gives both fighters a chance to hit and block. A turn ends when something happens to make them step apart or when they exchange enough blows that one backs off (i.e. randomly). Because sparring implies lighter hits the turns tend to be longer with the fighters exchanging more blows. You are right about what happened with Hunter. Basically, the longest matches happen between two more or less equal fighters. They hit each other until both are tired... eventually one gets tired enough that he has to catch his breath. If the fighters are close in skill, or the weaker one is lucky, this will happen about the same time. Then you end up with a bunch of short turns where they fight and one backs away. When that happens, the result comes down to one really good hit and the better fighter has a better chance, but it is random. You can see most of the K'Hare fights have K'Hare getting an immediate advantage and then backing up everytime the opponent gets tired. I expect a lot of the ta'pez matches to be the same way. (Remember, ta'pez won the betleH comp twice and came in third the other time. K'Hare, ta'pez and K'rahl are the best Klingon fighters in BF. You'd expect that from rank if nothing else.) It will be interesting to see the K'Hare, ta'pez, and K'rahl matches. I could tweak the system. I could increase damage so that once someone gets too weak you don't have the matches run so long. I could put in something that makes the fighters take a break... something like boxing rounds... but that doesn't seem to fit the Klingon mindset. I suppose I could make a K'Hare clone that fought dirty just so you could see the difference. I think there also needs to be some ranking system so you have an idea of who should win. Ing might not be as bad off as you think. Assuming you aren't sloughing, (you never know with Ing), Ing has practiced with the weapon, he speaks Klingon, has served on a Klingon ship, has been training for a few years. Even without knowing how the system works, you'd hope it would account for that and give him some bonuses. (:} After another week of this I will look at all the fighters and some of the weird matches and look for problems in the combat system. But the goal was to give even ness a chance to beat K'Hare, even if the odds are against it. The question is, how often should ness win? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 14th, 2005, 6:52am Did I mention that I have spent over 3 hours on this app today? I thought I was done. But between answerng challenges for me and a few NPCs and fixing problems and adding features... its been a lot of time. OK, what's new today. All unanswered matches are listed first. That should make it easier to see which need answering. The only problem is that once answered, they go into the list in the order the challenge was made. I could make them go to the end based on when they answered... not sure which is better. I added an extra comment field for both the challenger and the challenged. It is intened that the reason be a single one liner and the comment can be longer, like a URL to a mission post or something else. And of course, the big change. I made it so you can do multiple challenges and have different honor settings. In other words, you pick the honor when you make or answer a challenge. And once again, I have to ask... what did ness engineer this week? What's still missing? 1. Some indication of how good a fighter is. Would people be happy with a simple 1-10 scale? 2. A way to say no to a challenge. I am tired of all these first blood challenges. (:} Maybe I will add some way to let a fighter say I want to fight -5 to hit and +5 to block! 3. Do something with weapon type. (that will come after the betleH tourney.) 4. Allow 2 on 1? 2 on 2 or worse would not add much I think. You'd have some interesting stuff... especially as people get disarmed. But really, after 2 on 1, it would not add much, I think. But 2 on 1... that would be an interesting step up from 1 on 1. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Nov 14th, 2005, 7:01am Ok heres a Question... I Beat Saji, Saji beat T'Lai, and T'Lai beat Me!! If Saji can beat T'Lai and I've beat Saji Why is T'Lai the lesser of the Saji/T'Lai match beat me? (I sooo wanna get T'Lai lol) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 14th, 2005, 7:31am Because there is randomness in play. I could make things more static.... but then, what would be the fun in that? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by James_Hunter on Nov 14th, 2005, 4:41pm Ing The Puny wrote:
Yeah, I thought that might happen. From what I read, Ing's not that hot and Hunter's certainly not so I wanted to see how a more even match played out (and how long it went on for). Regarding the length and size of the text created, would it be at all possible to have the details automatically counted (Hits: 23 Misses: 14 Strong Hits: 4 Step backs etc.) and just end up with that, automatically deleting the text? You lose the fun of reading "Bob makes a flawless attack" but I doubt many would read the entirety of the longer matches for fun anyway. There's also the (perhaps remote) possibility of creating fighter histories. Win/loss records as well as accumulated honour, though I'd guess keeping track of that across seperate set-ups (Halls of Kor, Betleth IV) would be difficult. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Q`olavraH la` on Nov 14th, 2005, 5:28pm Should make some way to make a comment after you beat someone.. I didn't make a comment for the K'rahl, Q'ol first blood one because I didn't know who would win, but I knew it would only take one hit.. I would have loved to ask him if he wanted a bandaid after I knew I had won... So much for his hope for bonding time.. *snicker* |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 14th, 2005, 6:04pm Yeah... I have on my short list counting all blocks and hits as part of the match. I considered an app that would read the file and make a one line version of each turn. Actually, ta'pez came up with the best solution but I have to think about how to implement it... and I should spend some time on something else... like maybe the KDB plot! *heh* ta'pez's suggestion was to not show the text of the combat but to have a link which will show it, or maybe show it in a pop up. If I combine that with my idea to reduce the size of the files by compression, it should make things much nicer. I'd just like some input on what people think is important. Would it be OK to save summary info and delete the actual match after one week... or one day or ...? And another thing. Should I make this sparring thing something on each simm site or have one giant central place? Or maybe both? we have one on each ship site and a bigger one, a central one that is more OOC on the bfkc.batlh.com site? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 14th, 2005, 7:34pm probably the best thing would be to have this be - a place for all klingon simms - something usefull for batleth tourney afterall |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 14th, 2005, 8:14pm I'm leaning toward putting one on each ship that uses db.cgi and then have the central one for OOC stuff. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 14th, 2005, 8:37pm After I read through the match once, I'm not going to read the details again. Actually, the Ing-Hunter match was so long that my eyes kind of glazed over for most of it and I ended up skipping to the end. I like Hunter's idea of a summary count of hits, blocks, and so forth. It could also be implemented on a turn-by-turn basis, with a seperate summary for each turn, which would give a good indication of how the overall match went. A couple ideas for improvement: - Add a 'stamina' factor. Characters with low stamina will tire faster in a long bout, characters with high stamina can last longer before tiring. - Add a 'goal', or 'fighting style' choice. So you can choose between going for "Quick Win", "Wear down opponent", "Demonstration of skill", "Allow weaker opponent to gain honor", "Lose with honor", "Humiliate Opponent" (for Tappy when he fights Q'ol), or other similar factors. For a start, you could make a dropdown for how fast the combatant wants the match to end. "Over Instantly", "Short", "Medium", "Long", or "Extended" could be choices. Playing for a shorter match gives you and advantage early, but you tire more quickly. Playing for a longer match means you'll be more defensive early and conserve energy for later. Alternately, you could make the dropdown for aggressiveness. In either case, this could solve the problem of 1-round first blood matches. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 14th, 2005, 8:51pm The honor system seems messed up. The way the system seems to work is that the better fighter gains lots of honor points by toying with their opponent, protracting the match long after they have clearly established their superiority. Also, I tried fighting the same opponent (T'lai) one with Great_Honor and once with Fight_Very_Dirty... didn't seem to make much difference. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 14th, 2005, 9:29pm Well, the honor choice does make a difference. Its a hard balance... hiding the details while asking for suggestions. There is one big change over the tournament rules and this one. I think you are hitting on it. Before, being honorable was purely a disadvantage and Dishonor was an advantage. That isn't so clear anymore. I am pondering how to change that. Basically, what happens now is that being honorable makes you step back and give the advantage to your opponent. Being dishonable makes you take cheap shots and more agressive. Hmm... I did just think of something to do make that matter. So that honorable is a slight disadvantage and dishonorable is a slight advantage. I will go make the change..... throw off all of Ing's statistics. I am also thinking of putting in something that will let you change your agressiveness.... bonus/minus to hit/defend. There are already critical hits and misses in the system. The other issue, the honor for one side is one I saw immediately and I mentioned in this thread. the K'Hare and ta'pez fights against the less skilled make it easy to see. Once the better fighter gets the advantage, he pauses, and lets the other person attack first. He also steps back when the other is tired. That's what creates the "I hit you once and step back" loop. A dishonorable opponent will keep attacking... and just so you know.... yes... there is an advantage to hitting someone who just got hit. So that is a place where honor changes things. The honorable opponent loses that blitzkrieg bonus. So the question is, you are fighting K'Hare and he has hit you a bunch of times and you are about to drop. He hits you and he gets an honor point for stepping back and letting you recover. Now... what can you do that earns you honor? In character... what action should the disadvantaged fighter do to gain honor and how can I capture it? Maybe I could put some concept of morale in there... make you quit after 3 hits where you are about to drop and you just can't hit the opponent... or count your hits verses his hits and have you quit randomly... but not quitting... staying in gains you honor? Doesn't quite feel right. The better fighter isn't toying with the weaker one... he is stepping back and not taking advantage of the other. Feel free to suggest actions that would gain honor in terms of D&D or GURPS or Hero. I speak all of those. Stamina is in there... that's why matches go on for so long. But its the same for everyone. How can I calculate some variable stamina? What should increase or decrease stamina? The problem is, I use the current questions to calculate attack and defense. Should I make it even worse for low skilled characters by giving them low stamina? The goals are sorta captured by the honor setting but if you could suggest actions associated with them. For instance... if A is not too weak and B is, A taunts B by leaving himself open or at lower defense. Gains a dishonor point and gains a glory for A if B misses... gains a glory and honor for B if he hits. Right now glory is shared between the fighters... its based on the match being long and having lots of hits and blocks. I could easily make glory only add to one or the other for various actions like honor does. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 14th, 2005, 9:44pm K`Hare totlh wrote:
OK... the change is made. Basically it gives a slight advantage to the weaker fighter and allows a dishonorable one to steal that advantage. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 14th, 2005, 9:53pm This is an example of a faily even fight. This shows what I was going for: http://kdb.batlh.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?shipname=challenge&crewman=challenge_done_1131998257499 Basically you see both got honor. At one point Tak' was ahead and giving up initiative. Later, T'Lai got several little hits in a row and had the advantage and then started giving up initiative. Try fighting neutral a few times and see how the combat changes. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by SajidaKajada on Nov 15th, 2005, 6:36am WOOO SAJI IS THE FIRST TO GET A KNOCKOUT RESULT OUT OF ALL THE BATTLES SO FAR WIPIIIII ( Thanks to KHare for giving me the heads up on that :P ) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 15th, 2005, 6:42am Saji hit the rarest condition ... ok, Toran hit is too... or got hit by it... http://kdb.batlh.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?shipname=challenge&crewman=challenge_done_1132009375516 Yes, its an improbable event that can allow anyone to beat anyone. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 15th, 2005, 10:38am somebody got their ass handed to them . ;D |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by James_Hunter on Nov 15th, 2005, 10:58am K`Hare totlh wrote:
You could always have the text of the battle emailed to the fighters (if they click the 'yes' option) so they can read it if they want but it doesn't take up your space. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 15th, 2005, 3:12pm James_Hunter wrote:
You could always have the text of the battle emailed to the fighters (if they click the 'yes' option) so they can read it if they want but it doesn't take up your space. [/quote] well that still takes bandwith - though i might be that it takes up bandwith once |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 15th, 2005, 4:39pm Well, I like everyone being able to read the text if the fight is interesting. The one with K'rahl and Khoal sparring is a good example of why. Khoal should not have one. It was unlikely, but possible. But it does show one of the differences between sparring and a regular match to disarm. Relative to each other, with sparring its easier to hit and block and your stamina is higher. What that did in the match (here (http://kdb.batlh.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?shipname=challenge&crewman=challenge_done_1132045937057)), since both were fighting with honor, was K'rahl kept stepping back so he didn't take advantage... over time this allowed Khoal to 'catch up' until both fighters were tired. In the end, K'rahl had the better chance of scoring a solid hit to end the match but while probability was on his side, Khoal just got there first. Its something to keep in mind. When you are Sparring, the matches will have longer turns and more hits and blocks... and the odds against the weaker fighter are lower. There is no loss of honor there... that's kinda the point. The fight to disarm is more 'serious'. I guess another way to say it is the skill plays a greater role in a disarm match than sparring. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by ejmonahan on Nov 15th, 2005, 9:40pm So I guess If I want Metallic in on this I should act soon! But I Got Crystal here that could use some practice. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by SajidaKajada on Nov 15th, 2005, 9:53pm The more the merrier i'm just glad I made Ta'pez happy there hee hee (and myself too!) Oh and KHare love the new additions under the names of people. I kinda like the demigod status lol |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 15th, 2005, 10:42pm K'rahl is a rather fit fellow as you know. Khoal has a racial advantage, partial perhaps but its there. So in the long haul of a protracted spar K'rahl likely would tire before Khoal. Certainly K'rahl tires before the lighter, and faster, Q'olavraH. Given the second spar though... Clearly K'rahl was attempting to learn something and teach Khoal something too. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Nov 15th, 2005, 11:00pm Truthfuly I don't think it takes enough into count. for example, one My own character, the fact that he didn't start learning how to fight with a bathleth till he was 10 probably effects things greatly on determening where he falls. But same time he trained hard, realy hard to get to catch up to his fellow warriors. Another.. while his rank is not high, he has been in servic for a while so he's not inexperienced. The fact that qul'yIt's life has been rougher than most has also toughened him up to a point. But anyways... Think could probably at least use some kind of scaling for like how determined someone would be. How well trained and how often. etc.. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 15th, 2005, 11:08pm Next, people are going to suggest we Imperials have easy lives... Does Ta'pez look like he's had an easy life? Does K'rahl? Actually on KDB who is the most pampered... Interesting thought. Different answers will be correct, from different angles. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 15th, 2005, 11:37pm I can only take so much into account... but why do you (qul'yIt) has trained harder than others? You don't think the students of KDB have trained hard? There really isn't a way to quantify it. My long term goal is to have 100 questions you must answer where each is yes/no or something like that. And somehow, in some non obvious way it builds your character profile. So Khoal has a slight advantage over K'rahl in strength, even given their size, and Rakar... is even stronger. I had to make a choice about how much that affects things. Yes, I used rank to some extent. Why? Well, for K'rahl to survive to 'ech he must be a reasonably good fighter. That's just Klingon culture. But it isn't fed culture... so what can I do? I still have to assume that starfleet has requirements for officers that include a certain amount of skill. So yes, rank matters. It makes an argument that the character must have a better skill than when he was new. The problem with that is this: compare Ing to.... ah.... K'mala. OK, she is inactive... but the difference is Ing was a character who was made as a cadet and who has simmed for a few years. K'mala started as a la'. Because CO characters start higher. So should Ing, who was a cadet at the last tourney be so much worse than K'mala. Yeah, in character, but what about Commander West, a TF86 CO who was also a new CO character on a new simm. What I am getting at is some characters start at a higher rank... so just rank isn't simple enough. But even so, the character of K'mala was supposed to be a good fighter... she was a Klingon CO afterall. Another thing in the program is characters get an advantage for having attended betleH comps. It makes sense... you go to something where lots of people spar and you get exposure to new fighting styles. It's also a bonus that encourages people to bring back characters who have been there before... to develop some history. So this gives K'Hare and ta'pez a slight advantage over K'rahl rig ht now. I will probably remove the bonus from the sparring on ship sites... I just don't want to have too many versions right now. Later I will add code to pick which weapon you fight with so you can be a better meqleH fighter or so Aklev can kick some butt in that weird Andorian long sword. The training age thing... yeah, it can hurt you but how much worse do you think a 20 year old who started at 10 is verses one who started at 8? Its not realyl going to affect you. But a character who has just been fighting for a year can't claim to be a daHar master. So, I do want to make it more complex but I don't want to make it so complex that its impossible to predict who wins, and that the in-character weaker character always wins. Who can decide if K'Hare, ta'pez, K'rahl, or Q'ol is the best fighter? All I can do is try to make it work reasonably well for honest players. At the tourney I disallow the 20th level paladin/assasins but really, if a bunch of players want to make unreasonable characters then let them. It just wont be much fun. I try to make a program that makes an objective referee for reasonable players with reasonable characters. If K'Hare, ta'pez, or K'rahl ever do have a death match, this program wont decide the winner. That sort of thing will be decided by the writers for dramtic effect. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Nov 16th, 2005, 12:12am True and I understand your point. But the 100 questions or however many is a good Goal I guess lol. But I understand there is complexity to it. Still with enough question it will make it difficult for anyone to determin how to make their character stronger etc. As for prediciting who wins. You don't want any person to be able to do that easily. What would be the fun if you already could predict what is going to happen. But despite all this there is one thing I mentioned that could at least be considered, and have mentioned it number of times. That you not rank skill by trek characters. It has no clear definition for one. It leaves the person wandering.. well how strong are these characetrs comparing to. Is Martok less skilled than Worf... How much stonger.. I mean it realy depends on the person's veiwpoint on how strong these characters skills are. I know that if I was to compare my veiwpoints to what you have there it's not an even scale. To me there more of them with strong skills than with weak or in between. Now if you said 1, couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, 2, hit a barn but not a target.... to 5: hits stright in center of target repeatly... (Something to equivilant) think make more sense. Compare it to something that involves skill rather some character... |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 16th, 2005, 12:32am Kral wrote:
Why do I want people to know how to make their character stronger? My goal is you just answer all the questions I come up with based on the in character answers and let the program decide. But in general, I think the better answer is obvious. Are you from a strong race? Well, stronger people probably do better. If I added, does your character workout to improve his stamina? Would anyone but Ing answer No? The better answer is obvious. This is also the first I have heard of the complaint about using star trek characters. Maybe you posted that before and I missed it. Maybe that explains Ing's response of liking Quark on the list. So... you can ignore the names and just use the numbers. On a scale of 1-9, how would you rate your own skill? Remember, 9 is daHar master. Really, that high? So you can't get much better as you age? How sad for you, but I digress. The examples on there are just a guide for people who don't know what to put. It is called.... flavor text. By putting Worf or Martok or Gowron on there I hope I avoid players with new young characters from putting 8 because Worf is supposed to be as good as a young Klingon can get. He is special. Alexander is on there because we saw him fight on screen... same with Quark. But if you put a 6 or more, you are saying you can safely fight with canon trek characters. If you can come up with a better system and your name isn't Ing, then tell me. Let's discuss it. Let's discuss how to make people consistently score themselves. I could try to code up D&D or d20 or GURPS or Hero but these are all designed for interactive use. But suppose I did try. What level of fighter is K'Hare or Ta'pez or K'rahl or Sajada or So'l? I could simply code up D&D and make rank = level... but that hoses all the KDB cadets. Or how do we agree what Tucker's skill is? Tucker who you say? Exactly my point I say back. He is a CH character who trains with the betleH using the holodeck. Maybe he has done more since the last time I looked... how can make sure he picks the 'right' value. The system can only do so much. My goal here is to make it better over time by adding complexity. In the end, its just supposed to be fun. P.S. If you are Ing I simply wont try to implement the system you come up with ... no doubt it would choke the server. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 16th, 2005, 1:42am I have never hit a barn door in my life... |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 16th, 2005, 6:43am I think there should be questions related to stamina. Someone who does Ironman Triathalons for a hobby is certainly going to have more stamina than someone who pilots a desk. Put in a 1-10 scale (like with "skill with a betleH") and maybe some questions about how regularly and strenuously the character works out. And modify for race and all that. The only way to get players to grade themselves accurately is to require them to tpye in a bio to justify their grades. And to have the player's CO available to verify the accuracy of the material entered. (Not that every bio should be consulted with the character's CO, but that the option to do so should always be there. Knowing their CO could be looking over their shoulder should help keep people honest.) Of course, some bad apples are CO's, or higher ranks. *cough* last year *cough*. Those will require a firmer hand to deal with. For the better fighter to give up the initiative to the weaker and thereby gain honor works just great for the first 40 honor points or so. But eventually, it becomes clear that doing so is a pointless excercise, and the better fighter shoudl just end it and spare the weaker fighter any embarrassment. Honor is served by allowing the other fighter their best shot. Once it is clear that their best isn't nearly good enough, the fight should end. People should be able to choose some basic tactis. I was thinking: - At one extreme, go all out to try for a quick victory - gives you an early edge in attacking, but tires you out quickly. - At the other extreme, begin very cautiously, feeling out your opponent. Gives you an early edge to defense and lets you last longer, but you won't start seriously attacking until later in the match. You can set up a linear scale between the two. There must be some way to gain honor other than by giving up the initiative. If you look at some of the great bouts of the previous years, I remember the big Q'ol -Tapez bout where Q'ol gained honor by not quitting despite being badly wounded. Also, one of the students gained honor against K'rahl by doing his best and not being intimidated by a superior foe. And so on. If the only way to gain honor is to give up initiative, weaker fighters will never score any honor against a markedly superior foe, because they will never have the initiative to give up. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 16th, 2005, 6:50am Ok, so I just responded to your challenge, Ing fighting "Very Dirty" against K'Hare fighting with "Great Honor". I don't see any advantage to fighting dirty against an opponent who is so superior you can't hit them in the first place. Ing only got 2 hits the entire match. One ended the first Turn, and by the time Ing got the other, he was so winded he had to pause and catch his breath... |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 16th, 2005, 7:25am Ing The Puny wrote:
A mechanical system should and cannot ever replace the IC developement - i dont think that giving the text will nessesarily help others in regards to how the battle went. Ultimatly what you meantioned is open to interpretation. For example the Qol vs Ta'pez fight 2 years ago was seen as Q'olavraH gaining honor apperently by continuing to fight. This is certainly a risk - her foe asked her to submit - she refused - she could have been killed (as she was in the mirror universe of K'Hare) for a simple stuborness. If you go back and look at the test QolvaraH refused to acknoledge a superior foe - and almost lost her life - the almost makes it honorable - the mirror universe version got killed for that - a most folish thing to do. A mechanical system can never give us these variables - so we ll just have to do better. What the system can do however is highlight the fact who is doing what. I.e if 2 fighters fought dishonorably then their post cannot have that as fighting neutrally. The obvious inference would be - people being @ risk of being disqualified. That would equal it out. I.e somebody who fights slightly dirty - loses honor. Then again i dont see whats wrong with using advantages of somebody being out of step. Now kicking somebody while their down, that might be something different. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 16th, 2005, 8:42am Ing The Puny wrote:
I agree. I will answer the other stuff too. Its just late now. But how do I codify gaining honor? Basically I can justify everything the program does now. I just know there are some things it can't capture. I will probably end up doing the stamina thing, but as I said, I just expect everyone to pick the best values. Yes, I am a cynic. I just think the good role players are few and far between. At the tourney I do look at the answers people give. I read their bios and match them to the answers they give. And yes, a few slipped by me. I just try to make it better each year. There is an advantage to being dishonorable in the code now but it is small. I could think about increasing it. But remember that Ing vs. K'Hare is not the best comparison. How often should he win... even fighting dirty? But based on all the combat so far and because of the history of what dishonorable did, I might increase this. I am thinking I should. I put in code that makes the honorable fighter step back when the other catches his breath. I could add code that makes someone step back after every hit. I could also refine the exhaustion system... *gets idea* I could work on something that lets the weaker opponent fighter defensively with the intent of making the other one more tired... so basically he waits to attack. I could refine the exhaustion system so that a hit, a block, and a miss all cost different amounts of stamina and your combat mode reenforces this. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Taylor on Nov 16th, 2005, 10:00am And the worst thing is I'm following everything Ing and K'Hare say, word for word and I've not even had my caffine intake for the day ;D ~Dan |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 16th, 2005, 6:57pm Eyes glazing over... Must stay awake... James Hunter versus Ing Reason: Eat your Honour Match type: Disarm Weapon: betleH Status: **** Winner: James Hunter by disarm.***** Turns: 102 Rounds: 1118 Glory: 12 James Hunter Honor: Fight_Very_Dirty Ing Honor: Fight_Very_Dirty James Hunter Honor Gained: 0 Ing Honor Gained: 0 James Hunter Dishonor Gained: 194 Ing Dishonor Gained: 99 Why is it that this is the only match I've seen where Glory was accumulated? Hmmm... Why did Hunter perfrom the vast majority of dishoorable acts before Turn 60, and Ing didn't really get into the dirty fighting until then? And I thought Disarm was supposed to be a quicker match than Sparring... |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 16th, 2005, 7:23pm So many comments to make... I'll ignore Tappy's ideas of whether Q'ol is honourable or silly... It just gets embarrassing the way he doesn't understand the concept. So onto characters having statistics they make up themselves... As if players would be realistic!!! Some would but the vast majority would over exagerate their skills and their ability. Look at how many in BF speak a dozen or more languages fluently and are skilled in a HUGE array of specialities. Not least the one's that create characters from other fictional works and sledgehammer them into Star Trek. You would, in my opinion, need any statistics to DEFINATELY be backed by the CO and maybe the TFCO. and agreed by the comittee that run the competition. Otherwise it will be full of Uberfeddies and Worf-wannabes. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 16th, 2005, 8:08pm I don't think you can blame players for wanting to model their PCs on the main characters they see on the Star Trek shows. In the concept of a Star Trek RPG universe, people expect to be playing Picard or Data or Spock or Kirk. How many specialties was Spock an expert in? How many languages did he speak? How talented was Picard? And let's not even begin to discuss Data... So, naturally, everyone who plays a Klingon wants to be Worf. Which means that the vast majority of "Klingons" in BF specify that they have Worf's skill with a betleH. On the shows, there is one shipful of overpowered freaks, which is... well, certainly more plausible than having an entire fleet of overpowered freaks in BF. And the problem with the betleH competition is, how do you decide who is better: Worf-clone from Ship A or Worf-clone from Ship B? Worf-clone is always supposed to win any important fight, so there isn't really a good solution. Ta`pez wrote:
I was thinking along similar lines last night, and I find myself in complete agreement with Ta'pez. To me, one of the best features of Bravo Fleet is the fact that characters are living, breathing entities rather than a bunch of numbers and die scores. While the current program is a very cool toy, I think that to use it in the betleH competition would be moving things in the wrong direction. The competition would become more of a D&D-esque excercise in number crunching and die rolling rather than a vehicle for character development. No program can take into account the two fighters' goals, motivations, and tactis. A fight should be about two people facing off in the ring and trying to achieve their own personal goals. It should not be a count of hits, one character's number against the other. Now, given the Worf-clone vs Worf-clone issue, there has to be some fair and impartial means for deciding the winner of each match. Also, as was discovered in the first Tournament, the method for picking winners must be biased towards the character who would realistically win a given match. And I think the system has become more and more refined with each tournament. But, in the end, the mechanical system should restrict itself to deciding the winner of each match But it must be left up to the players to fill in the details and color that bring the match to life. A number-based system filling in the details of the match robs the players of their rightful ability to write their PC up in character for how they approached the match and executed it. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 16th, 2005, 9:05pm Ing The Puny wrote:
I just looked... I thought this would be the biggest file. Actually an earlier one with toran and hunter is 600K... for the one fight. Oi! I am going to have to delete the combats soon. There have been plenty of matches with glory, you just haven't looked. I think I said it before, when you spar, the glory is zeroed out and honor is reduced. But simply put, glory is a measure of the number of hits and blocks in a fight. In this case, even though you guys missed a lot, the fight went on for so long, that the audience got exhausted watching. Imagine you two getting up on the stage in the Halls of Kor, pulling out weapons and swinging and blocking for 2 hours... the station would be talking about it and making bets and disbelieving how long it went on. That is glory. Look at the fights between two evenly matched fighters who are better combat machines. The fight is shorter but has more action... so it gains glory too because of all the hitting and blocking. http://kdb.batlh.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?shipname=challenge&crewman=challenge_done_1132062586324 That match was shorter but had the same glory. I would have expected you to crack the basics of the combat system by now, especially with my comments. But essentually, what is going on is this: A and B fight. A tries to hit B first. Is that dishonorable? No. Fight continues and A is injured. B tried to take advantage of that and presses the attack. Is it dishonorable? Well, maybe. What the thing does is decide who gets initiative. If A is injured but has initiative, and B tries to steal it, that's dishonorable. Of course, its not implemented that way... its implemented as A has initiative and is more injured, since B is dishonorable he tries to take initiative. The Honor rule is simular. If A has the advantage in the combat so far, and also has initiative, then given first chance to hit gains an honor point. Basically, I am winning, so I am going to give you the advantage. Does that make sense? Does the combat follow now? What happens much of the time is A gets a good hit so B is at a disadvantage. So A gets the chance to gain honor or dishonor. This continues for a while. Eventually B loses and only A got honor points, or the match evens out. Sometimes, B gets lucky and gets the advantage. Once B gets the advantage he has the chance to earn honor or not. Now that it is implemented I see it highly favors the best fighter. Look at a lot of the K'Hare matches with the weakest fighters. They go quick. The weaker fighter never gets a chance to have the advantage so they have no chance to earn honor points. I have asked this a few times. Abstractly, how can the losing fighter gain honor? What could I put in the code? It did just occur to me that a weaker fighter could gain honor simply because he makes the challenge. I kinda like this idea because it might give me a way to hint at who is better without making it so someone can work out the value of each question. I.e... Ing fights Hunter and at the start, the judges give Hunter an honor point because Ing is such a better fighter. I could award glory seperately based on the relative scores of the fighters too... so the weaker fighter gets more glory for the fight. And finally, Disarm is supposed to be shorter but what happened here, was, both fighters are so bad that once they started getting tired they could only hit with criticals. All this has made me think about adding something where each fighter can choose to pull his punches. So I could answer Ing's challenge by fighting at "-5" (with my eyes closed or one handed). If I did that, I could inplement it so that it wasn't obvious. So a player could hide his superior skill in every fight. I could also put in something that would let a fighter choose some sort of fighting posture. (Ing suggested this already). But I could let someone choose to fight to gain honor, or defensively. Of coruse, if I did that, there would be a lot of: A gets initiative, B gives it back because he is winning and gains honor, A gives it back to gain the honor. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 16th, 2005, 9:06pm K`rahl wrote:
I have and will do this at the tourney, regardless of the system used. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 16th, 2005, 9:07pm nother option would be this assign a player x number of points mang = 0 mangHom = 20 points ne' = 30 etc... then go for the number of tournaments etc all the other questions so basicly have them choose - have a draw back i think the dishonor part must be also evaluated from a sense of the judges interveneing = fighting dirty = 10 % of being disqualified fighting very dirty = 20 fighting like a romulan = 50% of being disqualified |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 16th, 2005, 9:13pm explain this to me - no dishonor yeet they both fought like they were K'hears? Reason: For the dagger of shame ;) Match type: First Blood Weapon: betleH Status: **** Winner: Ta'pez by First Blood.***** Turns: 1 Rounds: 9 Glory: 0 Dan Taylor Honor: Fight_Very_Dirty Ta'pez Honor: Fight_Very_Dirty Dan Taylor Honor Gained: 0 Ta'pez Honor Gained: 0 Dan Taylor Dishonor Gained: 0 Ta'pez Dishonor Gained: 0 Challengers comment, if any: Response, if any: do you want me to place it in your upper or lower back? The stage is clear. Dan Taylor is ready to fight. Ta'pez is ready to fight. *** Turn: 1 Round: 1 ---- Turn: 1 Round: 1 ---- Ta'pez misses Dan Taylor. Dan Taylor is blocked by Ta'pez. ---- Turn: 1 Round: 2 ---- Ta'pez misses badly. Dan Taylor is blocked by Ta'pez. ---- Turn: 1 Round: 3 ---- Ta'pez wastes a chance to hit Dan Taylor. Dan Taylor misses Ta'pez. ---- Turn: 1 Round: 4 ---- Ta'pez gets a hit. Dan Taylor gets a hit. -- Dan Taylor took damage. -- Ta'pez took damage. ---- Turn: 1 Round: 5 ---- Ta'pez misses Dan Taylor. Dan Taylor misses Ta'pez. ---- Turn: 1 Round: 6 ---- Ta'pez misses Dan Taylor. Ta'pez laughs at the attack from Dan Taylor. ---- Turn: 1 Round: 7 ---- Ta'pez misses badly. Dan Taylor misses Ta'pez. ---- Turn: 1 Round: 8 ---- Ta'pez misses Dan Taylor. Dan Taylor misses badly. ---- Turn: 1 Round: 9 ---- Ta'pez gets a hit. Dan Taylor misses a strong defense. -- Dan Taylor took damage. **** Winner: Ta'pez by First Blood.***** |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 16th, 2005, 9:24pm Ing The Puny wrote:
Yes, and I expect my crew to be 'the elite'. Mostly. K'Hare certainly is compared to NPCs. Most of my characters speak 20+ languages... mainly because I am so bad at it. Yes, the simming environment doesn't need the kind of game balance that D&D or GURPS uses. Of course, I would restate your comment as: Quote:
Because, really, everyone who wants to play a Klingon wants to be Martok. Ing The Puny wrote:
Welcome to my world. Everyone wants to think they are the best. Its the genre. So, I just try to make it so the Worf clones have an equal chance against each other but they will beat the Quarks, most of the time. This is why I say that the combat award is not the real award of the tourney. Ing The Puny wrote:
I was thinking along similar lines last night, and I find myself in complete agreement with Ta'pez. To me, one of the best features of Bravo Fleet is the fact that characters are living, breathing entities rather than a bunch of numbers and die scores. While the current program is a very cool toy, I think that to use it in the betleH competition would be moving things in the wrong direction. The competition would become more of a D&D-esque excercise in number crunching and die rolling rather than a vehicle for character development. No program can take into account the two fighters' goals, motivations, and tactis. A fight should be about two people facing off in the ring and trying to achieve their own personal goals. It should not be a count of hits, one character's number against the other. Now, given the Worf-clone vs Worf-clone issue, there has to be some fair and impartial means for deciding the winner of each match. Also, as was discovered in the first Tournament, the method for picking winners must be biased towards the character who would realistically win a given match. And I think the system has become more and more refined with each tournament. But, in the end, the mechanical system should restrict itself to deciding the winner of each match But it must be left up to the players to fill in the details and color that bring the match to life. A number-based system filling in the details of the match robs the players of their rightful ability to write their PC up in character for how they approached the match and executed it.[/quote] I agree, mostly. But how many matches last year went unwritten... and how many were written well? Assuming this program gets used for the tourney for the combats, the players will always have the option of rewriting thier match. Last year, by hand, I sent out an email to each winner that said something like: A beats B. A's skill and random chance were overcom by B fighting dirty. I did that by hand. So this year, there could be this text instead or I could summurize it. I do concede your point. I do intend to add something that counts hits, blocks and misses and include that on the summary. I think I might also put in something that reduces the effects of exhaustion so fights end faster and have fewer misses. The whole point of using the thing now is to beta test is and make it that much better before the tourney. It also means that there can be a sparring room at the tourney in addition to the combats. I'd love it if every match was a long drawn out set of posts, but the reality is that is a lot of work. The drama and winning and losing can still be posted after the fight. The honor and dishonor scores can be used as guides for the crowd of what they saw. (Should I hide the honor choice of each fighter in case nothing was gained?) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 16th, 2005, 9:32pm Ta`pez wrote:
Initiative is random. Honor and dishonor don't come into play until someone has an advantage. Since this was a first blood match, no one had an advantage until it was over. Of course, I could change this. I could have someone gain honor/dishonor when the fighters were equal, not just when one has the advantage. That's easy... I might put that in. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Q`olavraH la` on Nov 16th, 2005, 9:35pm This all assumes that everyone answers the questions honestly and not just however they think it will make their character stronger. I love that my characters have weaknesses. I love the fact that because I don't lie to make them win all the time that there is the chance they can lose. And K'Hare will share the almonD rocHa with me or I will do something bad to him. :) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by ejmonahan on Nov 16th, 2005, 11:02pm So if I want to join this sparing how do I sign up! Cause you know I wouldn't mine joining. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 16th, 2005, 11:13pm ejmonahan wrote:
you re to fair of a character to sign up - you could hurt yourself ;) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by ejmonahan on Nov 16th, 2005, 11:17pm Sure sign Crystal Up, I think Metallic would be over kill and too much for the Empires Best, anyways he's a little busy with like 8000 plus Voth Refugees. 8-) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 17th, 2005, 12:36am To sign up to use the KDB one, you need to get your CO (me, Satian, ta'pez, etc.) to make an entry for you in the db.cgi program for their manifest. Then they ask me to put you on the KDB page. Also, I have implemented some changes, based on the comments of the last day. So learn it all over again! This version is just a code change. If I do the stamina thing later it will require that everyone edit and resign up. Also note I archived all the old matches. there is an archive for the room now. I haven't deleted all the old matches yet... but that might come later. And I still have another change to put in... I just didn't get there yet. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by ejmonahan on Nov 17th, 2005, 2:44am K`Hare totlh wrote:
*Yells* "Tapez can you enter me, Crystal, Please!" Thanks for the 411 K'Hare. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 17th, 2005, 4:00am On a similar topic, it seems to me that Honor is not an absolute. Honor is gained or lost in the eye of the beholder. Ta'pez and K'rahl have different views on honor, so the same action would gain a different amount of honor in Ta'pez's eyes than it does in K'rahls. Further, I don't think honor is quatifiable. If one person has undergone some dishonor, but then achieves some offsetting honorable victories, it would not be clear at which point they had 'redeemed' themselves. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 17th, 2005, 4:15am Honor is subjective - for one it is really something that depends on a particular player - so the honor is gained or lost in that sense. It does not matter what others think (because if it that was the case the worf would have not agreed to take the blame and officially "dishonor" his house by taking the fall for the house of duras. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 17th, 2005, 2:37pm Ing has more sense in his post above mine than Ta'pez does. Which is little surprise. However that just proves Ing's wisdom further as Ta'pez has missed the point of what Worf did... Yet I can see the great honour Worf gained by his actions. Worf was thinking about more than the self - something Ta'pez has trouble doing. My thoughts are most often on the honour of the p'Dra'on, as befits my position. Yet I also watch the honour of myself and those of the House of K'brd'Lok. I also watch, as Worf does, the Empire. There are times that my honour is less important than the Empires. If I must do, or not do, something for the better interests of the Empire I must weigh up how it will affect my entry into Sto'Vo'Kor. At worst, if Worf had died when most others thought all blame was his he would be on the Barge. So long as someone knew what he had done the great honour he earnt would counterballance all the dark thoughts of others. However in these contests we talk of smaller honour than that. It is still complex because giving initiative to Ing 50 times is one thing, giving initiative to Ta'pez 50 times is another. Ing might benefit from the experience, Ta'pez doesn't need that much assistance. The first is therefore honourable, the second foolish. I think Ta'pez would agree more wityh that comparison than we usually do. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 17th, 2005, 3:37pm Ing The Puny wrote:
I can't argue with that, but there is no way the program can know the context. So, think of it this way... the audience (embodied by the combat program) does not know all the details of evey character... it just sees the combat itself. So the honor score from the combats is based solely on actions in the combat, with no ability to know that one or the other fighter is better. EDIT: I forgot to mention that I changed the way honor is calculated. Now it works like glory where actions add to a number, and the final reported number is a relatively small one. So before you would get 30 or 40 honor, now just 2. The ratio is around 1/20th but its not that simple. The program is what it is. I could use bios and writing ability and such to determine these values.... if everyone would like me to close down KDB and make my simm be the betleH tourney, a year round thing where only 8-10 fighters are present any given month.... well... maybe I could do it. So much background and reading and such to doing that. The goal of players at the tourney should be to futher their character development, not to win the combats. So, this program provides a way to pick the winner from otherwise equal combatants... with a little luck thrown in. Look at K'Hare and K'rahl. I have run them against each other several times to test the changes I made to the program to make the Ing/Hunter matches be more reasonable. K'Hare wins everytime, which he shouldn't, OOC. So I turned on debugging and essentially it comes down to this. K'rahl and K'Hare, with respect to the program are close in skill. They have most of the same answers. But, K'Hare has a rank that is one higher, he has a strength advantage, and he has been to more betleH tourneys. The first two are obvious as to why they would help... though rank doesn't do as much as you would think. The third one doesn't make sense in character... until you realize what sparring is. K'Hare (and Ta'pez) have been to more betleH tourneys, so they have more experience with this sparring kind of matchup. So it is what it is... K'Hare is better at betleH combat when the intent is not to kill. Not surprising, in character, since he (supposedly) teaches students all the time. Granted, Klingons take sparring more seriously, but in a 'real match', the outcome would be decided by the writing anyway. There is another factor that is not obvious at all and I need to fix it now. But when I implemented the combat, there is an effect of rounding. Essentially, K'Hare has a "+1" over Ta'pez and K'rahl because of rounding to make the skill formula match the combat system. I will fix this by making the combat system have more resolution, but it will be a major overhaul. Eventually, I will remove the tourney bonus from the KDB (and other) installs... or maybe tie it to a match type. I will also add this thing that lets one player slough his skills. I will also add stamina. Hopefully things will improve over time but we can't expect the program to get it perfect. It is what it is, a tool to let players fight with some nod to character attributes. Hopefully you have noticed I have made a few more changes... (will I ever be done?). The combats now report numbers of hits, misses, blocks, and breaks. If it isn't obvious, a break is when you 'catch your breath'. I think the next big change will be something that reduces the combat text... maybe only reports turn summaries? I still think the play by play is interesting. I also put in code to give some bonus glory to the weaker fighter. Eventually, I will put in code to split glory so each individual gets glory for critical hits and blocks. The big change last night came from close examination of Ing/Hunter combats. No one else saw the match where they both got about 1700 Glory. What I realized was that once they get tired... they can't hit anything and the implementation of that made the fight run on until one got a critical hit. What made it was was the code for taking cheap shots. I put in code to gain honor by making one fighter step back when the other was too weak. That gives them a chance to rest and get stronger. When I added the flip side, the cheap shot, I put the code in the same method and what happened, was right after you'd take a cheap shot, you'd step back... allowing the opponent to rest and recover from the cheap shot... which makes no sense unless you are fighting to humiliate (hmm.... I will remember that for later). So... honor still makes you step back, but dishonor doesn't. I think this weekend I am going to make a tool to let me look at all the internal numbers of the fighters. So far, I haven't checked them. For instance... Mudar seems better than I intended. T'Lai is better than I would have expected. K'Hare whompped ta'pez more than he should. So there could be some inequities. I will make a tool so I can check this easily. I know it would be helpful for players to know how good they are but I don't want to make a dynamic tool that would let someone crack the system. So I think I am going to make a page that gets auto updated once a day and simple lists the order of skill of every. So K'Hare, ta'pez, and K'rahl will be at the top, and in order of skill, but you wont know how far apart in skill they are. Then it should be easier to see if someone is clearly in the wrong place. And did anyone notice that I slipped in something so when you accept a challenge the next page you go to is the result? And in case you missed it, there is a second challenge room. The other one holds all the retired matches. Its still in the old format... when I copy the new format over to it, the old matches will be missing the hit/block/miss counts, because those are new. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 17th, 2005, 3:58pm K`rahl wrote:
Your pride blinds you K'rahl - it will be your downfall. I have not denied the great honor of worf in his actions. He did what was best for the empire -even though that was a detriement to himself. However he would not have done it if his honor was dependent on the opinion of the others - quiet possibly those who wouldnt know the truth. Personally I am not sure if that was a fitting way to gain honor - by taking the blame for the dishonor of another. Would the civil war been prevented if the house of duras was exposed for what they were - a house of powerhungry traitors. Quote:
I do agree with this part - and it goes to my earlier suggestion - that it is subjective to the person in question - after all for Ing the opportunity could be very "forming" and the challange great - for myself it would just another bout. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 17th, 2005, 4:27pm Yes, it is subjective to the person watching... and the program gives its estimate. Oh... a thought I had with all this discussion. I could make it so your skill was entirely dependent on how you did in the program itself. That means a new fighter has to work his way up. That would work for the betleH comp if people returned with characters. It would work for one simm. It makes bringing in a new character a pain... how would you ever catch up to the guys who attended every year? And of course, it favors the guy who spends all his time running the program... I guess it would make the game a MUD at that point. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Nov 17th, 2005, 5:09pm Which we defenatly don't need sense the 'Great' K'Hare, 'God' of this Forum has enough to beat just about every one of us except Ta'pez anyways. Don't be getting a big head now K'Hare, be very difficult to fight with your head weighing you down. :P But anyways, I like the improvements. And I'm think I'm going to stop my suggestions and complaints lol.. Don't seem to be getting threw anyways. :P |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Nov 17th, 2005, 5:16pm Here's an interesting one... By all accounts I should of lost this one... http://kdb.batlh.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?shipname=challenge&crewman=challenge_done_1132206099147 |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 17th, 2005, 6:32pm Kral wrote:
One could try to substiture the rank issue. But rank in a way is a measurement of skill or seniority - afterall an ensign might not be better then an admiral - but then again a weHwI' might be better then his HoD in this. Perhaps K'Hare can explain the rank issue a bit better as to why it was included in the overall. in regards to mehhaj players joining this - i dont want to use the meH'Haj bio area on the db.cgi-in fact khare has to remove that area - so theres no need for me to add anybody - those who want to join the sparing matches should contact khare directly to be added in the NPC area |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 17th, 2005, 8:12pm My post earlier was intended to say 'You can only set rules for Honour to a certain extent'. In other words - give K'Hare some slack and some credit for having sense. I know to expect things to sometimes come out with surprising answers with things like this. Sparring and real fighting is very different. K'Hare might well best K'rahl in such events. In a real fight K'rahl is likely to have a slight edge. He just isn't used to trying not to kill someone. (obviously sparring with friends he copes better. For one he doesn't want to kill them and for two he doesn't care if he gets knocked on his ass. Of course there isn't a single player character on this list right now that he counts as a friend... Q'olavraH remember means more to him and all the other PC friends he has are elsewhere) K'rahl, Q'olavraH, K'Hare and Ta'pez have simply been around way longer than all the other Klingons in BF. So comparing the four of us to the screen its like we were in the first series and everyone else has come and gone. Stands to reason we are likely to be considered just that bit more skilled. Its all in the weave and we four know that the balance is fragile. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 17th, 2005, 9:11pm K'rahl versus Ing Reason: To pass on some wisdom Match type: Sparring Weapon: betleH Turns: 3 Rounds: 51 Code:
Interesting. Ing and K'rahl blocked each other about the same number of times (14 to 15). Ing got a lot more hits than I would have expected of one of the "Can't hit a barn" boys. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 17th, 2005, 11:04pm Yeah, its a little surprising. You hit about 60% of the time, and K'rahl blocked about 50% of your hits. K'rahl hit about 75% of the time and you blocked not quite 40% of them. That sounds closer then you'd expect. But the two things to follow up with are: K'rahl spars with Hunter... Hunter should do about the same but I'd expect slightly worse and K'rahl disarms with Ing. The disarm match should be worse for Ing. I said it before but essentually sparring gives you a big bonus to hit. The idea is you aren't taking things as seriously so its easier to connect with the armor (glancing blows) and easier to ignore them. Right now all the modifications are fixed. That is, the bonus for Ing and K'rahl in sparring is the same. I could (and maybe should change it) so that the bonus sparring is based on your skill... so it K'rahl's attack was twice as good, his increased chance to hit would be twice that of Ing. Does that follow? For example, in the old D&D system. The penalty to hit someone you can't see is -4... no matter how good you are. Should it by something like 25% of your THAC0 'bonus' for your level instead? Someone asked about the logic of rank in the skill stuff. This is a holdover from the previous betleH system. In one sense, we have rank as something that we can equate into D&D levels. It has the right feel under the old D&D system. Of course, it means an Ensign is always a crappy fighter. It also means you can't have the occasional Ensign who is a kick-ass fighter. In the RPG world, do you really want to start with a character with a THAC0 of 2 at first level? Of course, we aren't in an RPG... but when you talk about the tourney, or even just one simm... how can I decide if roS or Sallon is the better fighter? In some sense, using rank hurts my players, since they were all cadets! Certainly in the Klingon context, we would not expect a lousey fighter to make it to a high rank. Even if he was lucky, eventualy he'd be tested and fall short. (shutup ta'pez... no need for a one liner here.) But none of that is my justification for using it. I ask the question the other way. Is K'rahl, as an 'ech, a better fighter than K'rahl was, as a ne'? I would hope so... and that experience is what makes high rank count. So the system makes sure we don't have ensigns who are Dahar masters but after captain, it really doesn't add much. I am considering changing the math slightly. No one should notice the difference, I just need to make the system a little more fair to the high ranking NCOs. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ing The Puny on Nov 18th, 2005, 5:01am Reading a bunch of the matches, thetwo combatants always seem to have roughly the same number of blocks... |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 18th, 2005, 5:32am Ing The Puny wrote:
I see what you mean but I don't think its a problem. I'd worry more but I had the counting code so messed up in the first pass that I had to seriously look at it. What should be true, unless I make a math error, is that the number of hits, times blocked, misses, and rests should be equal to each other and the number of rounds... since those are the only 4 things you can do... hit, hit but be blocked, miss, or rest. I will think about it though. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 18th, 2005, 6:42am ):} http://kdb.batlh.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?shipname=challenge&crewman=challenge_done_1132272697646 This one is bugging me. K'Hare, Ta'pez, and K'rahl are within 5% of each other. It shouldn't be so one sided. Actually, it being one sided doesn't bug me, its that its one sided and its always leans to K'Hare. I am going to have to run 10 of these at once, this weekend, and see if this is consistent. It being one sided doesn't bug me because with a pair of good crits one fighter can make the other going into defensive mode where they keep resting and getting hit. That happened here. But it should happen for K'rahl in the K'Hare/K'rahl matchup too. I will figure it out this weekend... it could be some setting is pumping K'Hare's to hit or killing K'rahl's defense. Or maybe if I run 10 of them in a row, we will see its not so bad. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 18th, 2005, 4:40pm So you will see 6 new fights clumped together. K'Hare fighting ta'pez and krahl. I will remove them later since I forced the combats and the other two didn't accept... I did find a bug that was making K'Hare's defense too high. It was a left over from when I was coding the app and I had hardcoded some stuff before I had it reading the fighters files. It did effect someone else too.. but I wont say who. The next effect was it made K'Hare impossible to hit except with a critical. But that's fixed now. So I ran the six matchs and they still don't look as close as they ought to be. So I will dig for another bug. I need to try for Honorable vs. Dirty a few times too to see if that makes up for the difference. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 18th, 2005, 5:51pm no wonder Be'thal liked you |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Frem on Nov 18th, 2005, 6:09pm *Points to a recording of his fight against qul'yIt* That my boy is how to do it. *Frem's son yelps as he is hit over the lobes* |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 18th, 2005, 7:48pm I have 4 more fights with K'Hare and (K'rahl|Ta'pez). It still looks like K'Hare has the advantage. In these fights K'Hare is fighting with Great Honor, which should hinder him a little, and the opponent is fighting very dirty, which is a disadvantage. So K'Hare won 3/4. I do see better what is happening now. When you look at the fight, add the hits and was-blocked together. In the first match K'Hare-K'rahl, you see that K'rahl got more hits, but K'Hare blocked them more... remember, a block means the person would have hit but was blocked. So what's happening is K'Hare has a slight advantage in hitting and then once there is a hit, he has a slight advantage in blocking... and so you get what looks like a big difference. So I think its all working right. The other thing, is that versus K'rahl or ta'pez, K'Hare is embarrassed to say, he has a genetic strength advantage. What that means is that even if both fighters hit the same number of times, K'Hare will get the other worn out faster because of the slight extra damage from strength... the other fighter will start resting first. Once you start resting, it means you are about to lose. If you note the last fight, ta'pez did make K'Hare rest once so he was close to winning right at that point. We need to get Tolak in here fighting. He gets the whole strength bonus so he might be able to beat all three of them... we need to get him in here fighting so I can test that. I might need to lower the strength bonus. And at some point I will add a reach bonus... that should help K'rahl and that other giant. And it is true (looking at the internals) that sparring equals some of this out... so K'Hare's advantage is increased when sparring. So I need to add reach and stamina somehow. Then readdress this. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 18th, 2005, 8:02pm well keep this open - stamina and reach should do some tooo i still think that tactics are important too |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 18th, 2005, 9:58pm Yeah, stamina will do something, and reach. And I like Ing's idea of getting a + to hit but getting tired faster. That's just a little more work to code in. I think I might just add a Vulcan fighter to test the effect of the strength bonus... make sure it isn't too much. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 18th, 2005, 10:16pm Something else I was thinking about... Most of the time, I would expect to see Klingons fight with Honor, not Great Honor. Fighting with Great Honor means everytime you hit your opponent, you step back and give them a chance to recover... at least, that's the major thing that is implemented now. But that might be too far, it might be giving too much away. What I might do is take that out... and make some strategy select that puts that move back in. The problem is this. Assume A is slightly better than B. If both A and B are fighting with Great Honor, then whenever one hits the other, they step apart and rest. So the winner is the one who hits several times in a row keeping the other weak, or the one who gets the next crit hit. Well, that just means the better fighter has the better chance, but since they rest between shots, it compounds the advantage. So I might make the current Great Honor setting go away and be something you do just in sparring or in some sort of training strategy. Also note, if I didn't say it before, that anytime your opponent rests, it means you almost got him. So when you see a fight with resting on both sides, it was a close match. I've also debated recording hits as the total of hits and times you were blocked... because the current way is a little misleading... you hit and through no fault of your own, your opponent blocked... the current way makes it seem like you were less effective hitting then it should. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 18th, 2005, 10:48pm Lots of tests... in honor/honor fights with no strength bonus for K'Hare he still won 3/4... but they were all close and one of the wins was a loss in the box scores. So he has a slight advantage... strength makes it more and great honor increases the worth advantage if both are doing it. What do people think? How much should strength affect the match? Should it affect stamina or should stamina be totally seperate? Right now, K'Hare's advantage over K'rahl is betleH tourneys and rank. Over ta'pez it is just rank. There is still the rounding effect. I really will try to fix it this weekend but be warned... it may break the program. If the rounding effect goes away, the big 3 matches should be even closer. Dare I ask who the crowd thinks should win? There was a time when I would have said K'Hare should't win most of these matches. Most of the time, in writing, I let the other person win. But I would argue K'Hare should be the best of the big three since he has been teaching so many people to fight. Ta'pez should have just as much an advantange in the tourney fighting since he has done it so much and had just as much exposure. You could argue he should have more advantage having won two. I've always assumed both ta'pez and K'rahl were better at strict hand to hand but K'Hare was better at tactics and maybe that, plus the learning of his 'secret family style' had put him up there with the other two. And Satian should probably be better than the program has him. Comments? Anyway, this weekend I will try to: 1. Solve the rounding problem. 2. Have a close look at the racial damage bonus. 3. Include stamina.. any suggestions on how? 4. Include range 5. Build something so I can examine all the settings for all the fighters and make sure no ones being shafted. 6. Add something with shows rank of the fighters, somehow. Geez... will I ever get back to TF86 stuff? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 20th, 2005, 1:00am ta'pez won vs khoal with a batleth lost vs khoal with the meQleth whats the difference |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 20th, 2005, 5:51am My match with Satian looks very close but mostly my way... Yet I lost. Is that 'Satian's perfect strike makes K'rahl trip over himself' one of those instant winners? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Nov 20th, 2005, 6:23am Am I realy that bad if I'm doing all the challenging and no one challenges me? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 20th, 2005, 6:32am Ta'pez. Stop saying I love tribbles it is just stupid and annoying. In no way is it funny. I am sick of it. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Taylor on Nov 20th, 2005, 10:56am The only real problem I have now is finding matches I've challenged people too when they've been accepted, did you think more on an option to be emailed when a challenge is done? Just a one liner maybe with a link to the completed match? ~Dan |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 20th, 2005, 3:12pm Ta`pez wrote:
There is no difference right now. Note that Khoal got more glory... that's because you should beat him most every time. Seeing that Khoal won, he immediately rechallenged because it was unlikely result. In the current implementation, Great Honor against someone with the strength bonus is riskier. Again, as soon as someone starts resting, they are close to losing. Great Honor means backing off after every hit... this gives the weaker fighter a chance to widdle you down and then it becomes whoever gets the critical hit first. In the meqleH match, he just got the strong hit first. The stength bonus just help him widdle you down faster. I am thinking of reducing it for sparring. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 20th, 2005, 3:20pm K`rahl wrote:
You were winning 'on points' and if you note, he got more glory because you should win most of the time. The 'perfect strike makes the other trip over himself' means one fighter got a critical hit and ther other got a critical miss on the block. A 'perfect strike slips past the defenses' means a critical hit versus a succesful block, but not a critical succesful block... if that makes sense. All the ones about the blocks being better then the attacks mean a critical success on the block and just a simple hit or a miss on the attack. The damage varries of course. The combination here wasn't an instant win but at that point, both of you were tired. The number of breaks shows you that you had him ready to lose many more times but he got a strong hit at a point where you were tired. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 20th, 2005, 3:30pm K`rahl wrote:
K’rahl, It was meant in jest – if you cannot take some ooc sillyness then that’s fine – after all it is a challege. Of all people you should appreciate that. There’s also a PM button on here if it really bothered you A good thing btw would be able to leave a comment after the battle – but that rather minor. In regards to the K’rahl vs Saitain I am still surprised by the fact that a stronger race – i.e a Vulcan would be so much better @ this. For example – could a stronger Vulcan match the skill of a weaker klingon who has been reared with a blade in his hand. That is one of those things that just doesn’t sitt with me well. When I initially entered Ta’pez I said that he was not at the skill of the Dahar master – the reasoning for that was a) he was young b) he had spent some time outside of the empire c) it didn’t fit within his story Shouldn’t a dahar master be somebody older – i.e somebody in his 50 or 60 (which is relatively mature for a klingon – rather then say somebody who is of K’hares or Ta’pez age. I mean if you look at the age – that would mean something. Perhaps limits on skill in age can be there – or perhaps a Dahar master cannot be younger then 20 – so they would get a skill in fighting yet a disadvantage in stamina or strength. Ultimatly K’rahl should be stronger then Ta’pez because of the fact that he is a mongrel of finer build then the pure klingon. K’Hare should be stronger then both and Ta’pez should be quiecker then both. So it would say that K’Hare has stronger stamina but Ta’pez is quicker. Then there is the matter of batleth vs batleth and batleth vs meQleth. You would expect that the blades would have different characteristics – perhaps even a weight and strength requirement. Perhaps certain moves can be done only in a certain way. A very skill full attack with a batleth vs batleth might require speed where as a meQleth vs batleth battle might be different due to the meQleth’s strengths in speed and agility vs the heavier and less attractive batleth. Also perhaps to balance things out – people who are more experienced have higher standards or requirements to a dahar master is much less likely to get a critical yet the critical that he does get is very deadly. Plus perhaps getting a critical would depend on the skill of the other player- i.e if it’s a noob then the dahar master would do that easily – and if it’s a worf then it would be much much more unlikely. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 20th, 2005, 3:32pm K`Hare totlh wrote:
There is no difference right now. Note that Khoal got more glory... that's because you should beat him most every time. Seeing that Khoal won, he immediately rechallenged because it was unlikely result. In the current implementation, Great Honor against someone with the strength bonus is riskier. Again, as soon as someone starts resting, they are close to losing. Great Honor means backing off after every hit... this gives the weaker fighter a chance to widdle you down and then it becomes whoever gets the critical hit first. In the meqleH match, he just got the strong hit first. The stength bonus just help him widdle you down faster. I am thinking of reducing it for sparring.[/quote] in a meQ leth match that should not be the case |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Nov 20th, 2005, 5:06pm Well first thing... I would like to know where the idea that Vulcans are stronger than klingons comes from. From what I learned a while back, they where of almost equal strength, but the Vulcans are just faster because they are built to be able to move in higher gravity. Another thing. There is a definition for Dahar Master Iv'e know it for a while. I have found a definition online that fits what i already knew here... http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Dahar_Master Someone who is a Dahar Master is someone who has a Legendary Status, this is something I would assume has to be accumulated over a long time of battles, etc and geing told stories of etc. So a Dahar Master, would more than likely be someone of advanced age who has been considered a great warrior for many years. In some way you could say that the Greatest Dahar Master of all the Klingons is Kahless LOL |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 20th, 2005, 5:28pm i dont see how anybody here including K'hare and K'rahl are dahar masters |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 20th, 2005, 6:45pm I've repeatedly told you in IMs that I'm sick of the stupidity of calling me a Tribble Lover, etc. I've asked you politely many times to stop both this and the constant OOC stiring about K'rahl/Q'olavraH/ K'Hare. You just ignore my requests. So why you think I should appreciate you continually doing it is lost on me. And Its OK to pass comment in public about things that are said in public as long as its not offensively worded. I did not type any of the words I've said out loud about this sort of thing. Once upon a time it was funny, the time past - at least a year ago. Fair game for comment is the superior attitude of K'rahl. The way he thinks the p'Dra'on are elite. The way his self confidence and such can make him blind to things around him. His honour, that is fair game between all Klingons especially when your view on honour and mine are pretty much polar opposites. In fact you ought to be able to get endless jokes and jibes out of that kind of thing. So, in public, I repeat my polite request. Stop it. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 20th, 2005, 6:49pm Ta`pez wrote:
And no one here is. K'Hare won't accept someone claiming they are a Dahar Master I don't think. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 20th, 2005, 6:56pm Ta`pez wrote:
Actually its cannon that K'rahl is extremely quick for someone of his size. Q'olavraH is alarmingly quick. So I'm not sure that just through our race types you are quicker. Of course Ta'pez is smaller than K'rahl anyway so since K'rahl is 'extremely quick for someone of his size' perhaps that cancels the speed out and validates your comment. No question checked reaction speed - etc... More headaches for the CO and Refs... More variables more fun though. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 20th, 2005, 6:59pm K`Hare totlh wrote:
You were winning 'on points' and if you note, he got more glory because you should win most of the time. The 'perfect strike makes the other trip over himself' means one fighter got a critical hit and ther other got a critical miss on the block. A 'perfect strike slips past the defenses' means a critical hit versus a succesful block, but not a critical succesful block... if that makes sense. All the ones about the blocks being better then the attacks mean a critical success on the block and just a simple hit or a miss on the attack. The damage varries of course. The combination here wasn't an instant win but at that point, both of you were tired. The number of breaks shows you that you had him ready to lose many more times but he got a strong hit at a point where you were tired.[/quote] Cool, cheers. I wasn't sure if the word variations were seperate things. Now I know they are combinations, which is good. Should be able to 'read' the other meanings now with the example you've put. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 20th, 2005, 9:38pm Kral wrote:
Humans are standard strength. Betazeds, and all the other head jobs are standard strength. Ferengi are probably weaker, but probably capible of standard strength if trained. Klingons are stronger than humans but not grossly so. Klingons are just bigger so naturally they are a little stronger, on average. They probably have slightly better muscle mass from breeding for strength and the culture encourages strength training. Basically, most Klingons are Arnold size. But on screen evidence suggests they are not significantly stronger. There stamina should be much better though. It is canon that Vulcans and therefore Romulans are noticably stronger. Not just stronger one on one, but as a species, measureably stronger. Part of that has to do with Spock being a superman in TOS. But it is canon and accepted. I would think that Andorians should be somewhat stronger than humans, and lighter. I'd make Tellerites have increased stamina... I just don't want to start trying to work this out for every species. Maybe over time this can be better argued. I have considered getting the latest Trek RPG race book and seeing that that says. But, all this side, in the current implementation, only the Vulcan level strength difference matters. Maybe later I will improve this and make it more fine tuned. As to this making Vulcans better than Klingons at sparring... well, isn't Data, potentially, the best betleH fighter there is? With his speed and strength, who could match him. Once he studies the styles, he would be unstopable. But its part of his race bonus. In the Shatner books, Kirk beats Worf in a betleH combat. (Yeah, annoyed me too.) But remember, you aren't talking about any Vulcan picking up a betleH and beating Klingons. (How many times did we see Kira beat up a Klingon in hand-to-hand?) You are talking about a Vulcan, trained in Klingon styles, and having a strength advantage, beating Klingons. A Science Officer like Spock, fighting ta'pez will lose because his fighting background isn't good enough to make up for his strength advantage. There are questions about speaking Klingon, serving on a Klingon ship, etc. that add bonus that are supposed to cover the cultural bonus. I might make a more explicit one about being raised Klingon. Later, I will add Human and Vulcan weapons and have questions about those cultures to do the same thing for those fighting styles. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 20th, 2005, 10:02pm K`rahl wrote:
And no one here is. K'Hare won't accept someone claiming they are a Dahar Master I don't think.[/quote] No, I don't allow people to claim that are Dahar Masters. When they do at the tourney, I look very closely at their bios. One of the problems right now is that the number of skill levels is too low. I am thinking of making it worse by making it a number from 1-27, not just 1-9. Right now, ta'pez and K'Hare and K'rahl have essentially the same skill because there isn't the resolution to do more. I will change that. At that point, I expect ta'pez and K'rahl to have a higher overall skill than K'Hare, but K'Hare will have the strength advantage. They other way I might go is to remove the question totally in favor of a single question about overal hand to hand skill and then ask specific questions about each weapon. But as long as I have a say in BF, no PC will be a Dahar Master. Someday I might retire K'Hare and call him one but I can't imagine him still being my primary character and being at that level. Same with being a Thought Admiral which technically, someone K'Hare's age could do. K'Hare, ta'pez, and K'rahl should be the best Klingon fighters in BF because we have the history. Satian should be up there too and once I build the new app to let me review stuff, I will probably encourage him to move things up a little. As one of the owners of the competition, one of my jobs is making sure we don't have people walk in with a new character, just a few months old, who is better than everyone else. Its not fair to the people who put the time in. I had this conversation with Satian a year ago and he accepted it and since then, I have watched his simm and stuff, and he has put the time in. (That's why I know all about the happenings on his ship.) Eventually, Kral will be there too if that game continues on strong. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 20th, 2005, 10:08pm K`rahl wrote:
You were winning 'on points' and if you note, he got more glory because you should win most of the time. The 'perfect strike makes the other trip over himself' means one fighter got a critical hit and ther other got a critical miss on the block. A 'perfect strike slips past the defenses' means a critical hit versus a succesful block, but not a critical succesful block... if that makes sense. All the ones about the blocks being better then the attacks mean a critical success on the block and just a simple hit or a miss on the attack. The damage varries of course. The combination here wasn't an instant win but at that point, both of you were tired. The number of breaks shows you that you had him ready to lose many more times but he got a strong hit at a point where you were tired.[/quote] Cool, cheers. I wasn't sure if the word variations were seperate things. Now I know they are combinations, which is good. Should be able to 'read' the other meanings now with the example you've put.[/quote] I am surprised no one asked about this before. I have purposely hidden details but since you have asked and its not so hard to see... There are six results of attacking: double crit miss, crit miss, miss, hit, critical hit, double critical hit. A strong or solid hit is usually a critical and a perfect strike is a double crit. There are six results of blocking: double crit miss, crit miss, miss, block, crit block, and double crit block. Same text rules but blocks are a little hidden by the strike that hit them. A perfect strike that makes the attacker trip over themselves is a double critical hit against a critical miss of the block. It is very rare. The double critical hit aginst a double critical failure block is one way to instantly lose. The odds are 1/500,000 or worse... and we have seen it once, in that saji fight against Toran where she knocked him out. And yes, Ing could do it to K'Hare if the dice make it happen. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 21st, 2005, 1:11am When you look at the skill levels and styles... I assume most Klingons will have a higher skill in 'Death' than most aliens... After all most aliens do not carry these blades into combat time and time again. K'rahl has been in numerous combats to the death in game - not counting the hundreds of combats that will have occured outwith the writings in the games. This - to me at least - seems obvious. But there are Klingon rituals involving combat that an alien also should be disadvantaged when attempting - again a huge cultural difference. But then, why would the alien be doing these? IN BF who can tell. Not sure we'll be actually needing the 'death' one of course... I guess my point is pointless... |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Satian on Nov 21st, 2005, 1:40am K`rahl i have set 2 more match requests so that this question of a lucky hit can be settled, and im addiceted to the sparing ;D |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Nov 21st, 2005, 1:58am Interesting results too... There are distinct similarities between those two latest spars. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Nov 21st, 2005, 3:13am K`rahl wrote:
I have not recieved a single IM from you on this - but irregardles this is not reason. Quote:
So now I am not allowed to comment on what I see in the ploy and how my interpretation is, for Pete's sake they have a kid together - would you not expect me to hold that view (especially since you have just stated that my outlook on honor and what others do are polar oposites of what we assume). It is OOC - prove me otherwise - adress the issue IC - this is a prod to do something about a topic that has not been adressed. At the same time I extend the same challange to the other two - btw I have prodded and stated numerous times things that I dont see IC that should be there. I play a character that doesnt have a pretty past or certain action, I play them out and do as should be done to the full extent to show what happens when you pick some of the less desirable choices. I am sorry how is K'rahl going to deal with the foul cheng nad others who whisper behind his back about the child of K'brd Lok blood raised by K'hare. Would you not expect from somebody who disrespects you IC to insinuate just that. How is that any different then the insuniations that the more proper imperials wield against my house and story. I mean to a degree this is rediculous. K'Hare though the issue of Ta'pez and what his heritage was needed to be adressed he did so with my aknowledgement and support both IC and OOC - why is this such a touchy thing to - after all are we not allowed to poke holes into the egos of our overblown klingon character. Quote:
I have yet to recieve an aswer to the many greetings I left on your IM - are you actually recieving them - what IM are you using. Quote:
What changed? Quote:
but that is exactly what i am doing - dont you see that? Quote:
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 21st, 2005, 3:21am In the first construction of the page I had death matches but I disabled it. If two people really want to do it, I will let it happen... but I will enforce it on KDB. (:} I didn't get as much done this weekend as I wanted. Damn real life getting in the way. I am working on an app that lets me look at all the settings at once. Not done yet but I have already corrected a a few things. Khoal, t'lai, and qul'yIt have been corrected. Seems the players of them all did the wrong thing for strength. Those players should contact me if that have questions... but again, Klingons ARE NOT extra strong. I've already slapped around Khoal's player. I might, later, put in something to count the strength advantage of Klingons over humans, but already, the slight bonus for pointy ears seems to give them too much of an advantage. I will probably drop the bonus down some and half it again when sparring. I think I forgot to mention something last time... the strength advantage. A stronger opponent would be able to wield the weapon better so a Vulcan wouldn't get as tired using the thing, if he did know the basic moves. Whereas anyone using one of those vulcan things with the big rock on the end would tire. Maybe later I will make some fatigue model. I still have more to do to review stats of all the fighters and will make more corrections. And I still plan to make the skill question more complex. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Satian on Nov 21st, 2005, 3:31am the vulcan thing with the rock on it is a lu'pra and it is bladed on one side for cutting and slashing and the other is weighted at 50 lbs and is used for striking and crushing. it is held and used like a staff |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 21st, 2005, 8:36am I have made some changes in the program and removed the authorization for everyone to spar. This means you have to reedit yourself and click the 'I want to spar button' again. This will happen from time to time. The changes I made required you reselecting some values. You will note I added some other weapons. No, it doesn't do anything yet, but its in there for the future. I reduced the strength bonus and made it not count as much in sparring. The fights with Satian and K'rahl show that it needed doing. I finally worked out why K'Hare was still winning. The rank code was more significant that I thought so the one rank difference made a noticable difference in the combat. I wanted to redo how it worked, and I did, so its fixed now... or at least different. Need to have fights with the top 4 and see what happens. I have an app that lets me check all the stats in a glance. There were a lot of minor problems. Hopefully this redo of the bio edits will fix them. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 21st, 2005, 11:13pm I put in the links so that in the sparring room you can click on a fighter and go to their bio. Also, I forgot to put Daqtagh in the weapons list. It is there now, please go set your stats for it too. Still not using weapon types or reach or stamina... but those things will come. Also, I added something called combat theory where you can put how you will fight. You are obligated but you can give a hint there so people know how you want to be challenged. Like "I fight with Honor against those worse than me and Dirty if they are better." And did I mention this?: http://kdb.batlh.com/cgi-bin/db/check_fighters.cgi Its the program I use to take a quick glance at all the fighters to spot problems. That function wont work for you but the order the fighters listed is the order of the attack skills. Suran, an NPC who is 'missing' from KDB is an old Vulcan combat master. He is supposed to have a skill no one can match. I will try to have NPCs of all levels over time. Look at the bios for a clue about them. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Satian on Nov 22nd, 2005, 4:28am i seem to be getting the hell kicked out of me more often, I Like it |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Taylor on Nov 22nd, 2005, 2:49pm When I click any fighter bio it always gives me the bio for the challenger... a bug I think. ie: Taylor challenges K'Hare will give me Taylor's bio if I click K'Hare's link. ~Dan |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Nov 22nd, 2005, 3:12pm Taylor wrote:
That's what happens when you cut and paste in a rush. Fortunately, the bug was in the template, not the data files. A simple two character fix and its correct now. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 2nd, 2005, 3:33am btw just so you know - theres something rather curious i saw on there - Ta'pez got more glory when fighting Saitain with honor - then when he was fighting him with great honor. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 2nd, 2005, 6:21am Ta`pez wrote:
ta'pezx get's lots of glory for dishonorable deeds..... what's your point? (:} Glory is based on the number of hits and blocks in a fight with more for criticals. Basically its the number of times the crowd oohhed and aaahhhhed. There is also a glory bonus to the weaker fighter and the winner. That's why roS fighting ta'pez gets more glory. Right now the glory from the combat is shared, so roS gets glory from ta'pez hitting him a bunch before he finally gets knocked out. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 2nd, 2005, 12:44pm Saitan was fighting very dirty - Ta'pez was fighting with great honor = less glory then when both of them fight with honor it was a weird setup. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 2nd, 2005, 2:46pm Post the URLs so I know which ones you are talking about. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 2nd, 2005, 4:22pm http://kdb.batlh.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?shipname=challenge&crewman=challenge_done_1132894496976 http://kdb.batlh.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?shipname=challenge&crewman=challenge_done_1132614134096 |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 2nd, 2005, 8:27pm You don't get much glory from sparring. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by JakeNess on Dec 2nd, 2005, 10:00pm I want to try it. I need a character name in the box! |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 2nd, 2005, 10:15pm Ness has been there from the start since he had a meH'Haj bio. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by JakeNess on Dec 3rd, 2005, 12:43am I don't see it. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 3rd, 2005, 2:06am Ness, go on the page K'Hare first links to and update your bio there. It asks a few questions about weapon skills. Thjen you need to activate yourself for the fights. You gotta do it in exactly the right way. If nmeeded print the directions K'Hare put up n use them. I had a tough time getting Flim on. But it works. (no idea why Flim was hard to get on, he just was) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by JakeNess on Dec 3rd, 2005, 7:48pm I found me and pressed "I want to spar." and it had me create a password, and when I clicked Save changes or whatever, it said "Unauthorized" |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 3rd, 2005, 8:07pm that means your password was wrong 1. Edit your bio on the KDB page. You have to set all the combat info at the bottom. 2. Click the I want to spar and enter your password. IF it gives an error there is something on your bio that needs changing. If not, then you are now on the sparring list and can go to the stage and challenge people. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by JakeNess on Dec 5th, 2005, 4:34am I looked through the records briefly and I haven't seen ANY incident of K'Hare losing. I wanna see the code. I bet there is a few lines of code that automatically define K'Hare as the winner if he participated. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 5th, 2005, 5:17am JakeNess wrote:
Bite me. If you read this thread I already said that in the previous version there was something affecting the stats. The code was there in the initial version before stuff was being read from the bios. This affects all the fights in the archive. None of the fights that are in the active part of the stage right now are affected by that. There are two fights that are an error. The two fights where K'Hare beats Suran quickly was caused by something I broke in testing for the email. If you look at the other fights with Suran, the one before and after those two, you she he wins. Have you looked at the fighter ranks? Suran should always win unless someone gets lucky. K'rahl, ta'pez and K'Hare have almost exactly the same skill. But they should almost always beat everyone else. And finally, so what if I did do that? Its my program. You don't have to challenge me. So what if I always one because only I was hardcoded to win. Why the hell would you care? It isn't going to effect you. Stop insulting me and stop trying to piss me off. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 5th, 2005, 5:41am K`Hare totlh wrote:
Bite me.[/quote] Kinky...thats all i have to say, another thing - ness unlesss u re trying to get banned on purpose - drop it -honestly it was amusing @ first at this point its just stupid - dont mess with the big dogs - u ll get hurt - or worse banned. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by JakeNess on Dec 5th, 2005, 6:12am All I was saying was that I didn't see any incidents of K'Hare losing. Any everyone has an off-day sometime. I wasn't implying anything malicious. EDIT: I stand corrected. I just beat K'Hare by First Blood. I guess the K'Hare can fail once in a while. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 5th, 2005, 1:22pm You do realize that your sparring skills are out of step with what you portray IC |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 5th, 2005, 3:19pm Before or after I had Suran teach me a secret family style for over a year? In other words, I got better. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 5th, 2005, 6:42pm K`Hare totlh wrote:
This was pointed @ Ness |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by JakeNess on Dec 5th, 2005, 10:42pm Ta`pez wrote:
As in... too high, too low? I have been practicing since our last practice session, Ta'pez. I've been on the ship for a few years now. And I set my settings as honestly as possible. EDIT: I find humor in this. I have beaten Ta'pez and K'Hare and nearly noone else. Kinda backwards, don't you think? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by JakeNess on Dec 5th, 2005, 10:57pm I have a feature request. Can K'Hare do it? Or is it too great a task for even him to "engineer"? Howbout a scoreboard, but not just a normal one. The points you gain for each match are variable. You gain more points for winning with honor You get good points for winning dirty You get some points for losing with honor You lose a few points for losing dirty Also, it'd be cool if you gained more points for defeating players with a higher rated skill than your own. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 6th, 2005, 1:53am According to the list I read Ness is fifth from bottom. His skill is rated as worse than Frem (who is quite well skilled for a non-Klingon) so it looks OK to me. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Dec 6th, 2005, 1:58am Yeh, except Ness IC is not supposed to have much skill with a batletH. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by JakeNess on Dec 6th, 2005, 3:06am As of 3 years ago maybe! I've picked up a few skills. Maybe not in the middle of a real combat, but I can spar ok. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 6th, 2005, 2:23pm I remember well the incident on the holdeck - Ness didn't realise we had safety off as standard and he went there to train. He'd only been with us a week or so IC I guess. His next stop was Sickbay. If he was still like that he'd be fun to watch sparring himself... I would have been surprised if he outskilled Frem, for example, as we know from the first Tourney that Frem can indeed fight quite proficiently. Anyone who never saw him fight, if you've beaten him it means you are quite competent, he's about as good as a Ferengi can get... OK, if you lost to Frem that might not be any comfort. If Flim was |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 6th, 2005, 2:35pm Oh my... *laughs* I think Frem forgot his fighting stance there... How amusing to see the little runt lose because he didn't cheat... |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 6th, 2005, 7:12pm Yeah... I really need to put in something that lets the two fighters comment after it is over. But as you see, I haven't had time to put in the code to make ness always lose so he beat Frem, which is an unlikely outcome. From that fight you see that it looks like misses went up. I need to look into that. It's bugged me since I made the change to remove the round off problem. It seems like everyone misses more (see the first blood match where ness beats K'Hare). I could tune up things so missing doesn't happen so much and blocking happens more... the net effect should be about the same but there would be less swishing. What do people think? I also need to put in something that allows for someone to decline. I know I am mostly ignoring first blood combat now. Maybe I will play with them again once I put in the thing to let you fight differently... i.e. agressive or defensive...etc. Or maybe I should alter first blood so that everyone fights with a defense bonus/attack minus... since the point is the first hit. Again, comments? But really, I don't have much time to play with the combat app. There is too much to do before the betleH comp. It will only get more changes before betleH 4 if I get in the right mood. But after, I have a bunch of things planned... like using the different weapons. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 6th, 2005, 7:17pm JakeNess wrote:
That is already in the works. If nothing else, the sparring stage will be in place for betleH 4. That is, it will be available the same way it is for KDB, for fun. Anyone can challange anyone and such. I wont edit the skills of people there... that would be too much work. So expect skill inflation. But I will need some scoreboard. The complexity will grow over time. But think about the problem. Does roS and ness get to the top simply because they challenge every other person every day and gain the most points over time, or is the ranking based on average gain and weighted by number of fights? Its not simple. But some sort of scoreboard that shows average and total points will be available. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by roS`neQar on Dec 6th, 2005, 7:32pm JakeNess wrote:
Interesting.. here you accuse K'Hare of cheating. JakeNess wrote:
Then here you make a big deal about beating him... so is he cheating or not.. and if he is cheating then why make a big deal out of winning a rigged fight? *but then... if it was rigged he wouldn't have won :) * |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 6th, 2005, 8:40pm Actually Frem forgot to adjust his Honour setting. The default used to be blank so if a player forgot to enter one it wouldn't work. So it messes with Ferengi when they forget to click... |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 6th, 2005, 8:47pm The thing with First Blood is that in fact it could take a long time to fight in truth, instead of one or two blows. In a First Blood fight the winning or losing is determined in one blow, lucky or skilled. So there would be more circling. more feignts. And even fighting with Honourr you would still take a good shot at an opponent's mistake. First Blood is ABOUT using the mistake. If anything First Blood is closer to a real fight. Remember by 'real' I refer to a Klingon fight to the death or a serious challenge, not a sport. The Tourney is a sport, fair play is much more clear cut in a Tourney. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 6th, 2005, 9:20pm K`rahl wrote:
there is some merit in this - |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 7th, 2005, 6:22pm So do I leave it alone or do I give a +5 to defense and a +0 or -5 to offense for first blood? I know, +5 means nothing... just think 'bonus'. Right now, disarm is fought straight and sparring gives a bonus to hit and block. So for first blood, should I: A. Leave as is B. bonus to defense, penalty to offense C. bonus to defense, nothing to offense Option B would turn the fight into a lot more swishes... i.e. one person swings the other steps out the way then swishes himself. Option C would just increase blocks... that is.. you'd get the number of hits but more would be blocked... meaning they didn't draw blood. I don't want to bump offense and defense because that's sparring. I guess there is another option, call it D. I could make the winner the first one who gets a crit hit that gets through. There is variable damage in the app right now. Something like this: A hit that isn't blocked does 1 pt of damage, a crit hit that is blocked does 1 pt, a crit hit that is crit blocked does 0, a crit hit not blocked does 2 pts. I could define first blood as a hit that does 2 pts or more. Higher skill would still come into play as it would be easier to block a weaker opponents crit hit, but matches would be much longer because you have to roll the critical and the chance of a critical is the same regardless of skill. The main problem with this is it would not be clear to newbies that blood wasn't drawn. I'd have to rewrite text to indicate blood was drawn. X gets worn down vs. X takes damage. Also, it would be possible in this case for a match to end in disarm before blood is actually drawn. One merit of this is I could then have First Strike (and hit) and First Blood (actual damage) be fight types. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 7th, 2005, 8:36pm C or D sound good. And if it means more styles are open does that mean there will be a 'Freestle' match? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 7th, 2005, 9:55pm Actually the idea of B for a new thing called First Strike and D for the new First Blood both appeal to me. I doubt it will be done before the betleH tourney, but we will see. So question one: A, B, or C as the best mod to the current First Blood option. Question two: D, yes or no (under the assumption that the current First Blood code be called First Strike or First Hit, and a new First Blood option that operates like D above, be added.) I assume K'rahl votes: C and D-yes K'Hare votes B and D-yes |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 7th, 2005, 10:02pm Assumption correct. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Dec 7th, 2005, 10:16pm Just thought would say.. That even with all this, can never replace an actualy writen Battle :D And shouldn't. But is is cool that you are willing to go threw all this trouble for us K'Hare. (Thinks you need some more respect for what you do here) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 8th, 2005, 12:04am Absolutely! Yes, I need more respect. No, wait, that's not what I meant. The combat app is intended as a tool, an extra. It simply makes two characters fight under a equitable combat system, based on what each player says about their character. Yes, I have rules that make rank factor into the mix, but if I didn't, everyone would have max skill and the fight may as well be determined by the flip of a coin. This is simply my best effort at making a system that allows for some random effects, while favoring characters that should be better at combat, when that is obvious. Characters who say their skill is higher, characters who have higher rank, or characters who are more combat trained. Basically everyting I can think of has some effect and its designed so those who should win, have a better chance and so that as you progress up in rank, you improve. But absolutely, if a pair want to write out combat or sparring or whatever for a scene, that is better than using the program. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by JakeNess on Dec 8th, 2005, 3:19am you know, people could use this as the base and then insert more detail as well. Problem is, you'd need to make it go for a lot less rounds. It's excessive. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by JakeNess on Dec 8th, 2005, 3:22am K`rahl wrote:
That was with a meqleH. Since then, I am much better with the batleH, but I am still scared of the meqleH. Very interesting that I had the setting for meqleH set to "Picked one up." which is the first setting after "Never picked one up." and I won against toreQ's other character. (Name escapes me at the moment) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Dec 8th, 2005, 3:23am JakeNess wrote:
That was with a meqleH. Since then, I am much better with the batleH, but I am still scared of the meqleH. Very interesting that I had the setting for meqleH set to "Picked one up." which is the first setting after "Never picked one up." and I won against toreQ's other character. (Name escapes me at the moment)[/quote] qul'yIt |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by JakeNess on Dec 8th, 2005, 3:40am That's it! That's gotta be it. I'm sure of it now! :P |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 8th, 2005, 1:54pm What was I going to say about Flim though? 'If Flim was'... If he was what? I got distracted when I heard how Frem lost. If Flim was (blank) - answers on a postcard please. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 8th, 2005, 4:02pm JakeNess wrote:
That was the original intent when I started. A guide to a fight. I can fix the length of the combat. If I give everyone a bonus to hit in every combat the fights will be shorter. I think I effectively gave everyone a minus to hit when I converted the system to decrease round off error. And the reference to a meqleH fight.... right now that doesn't do anything. All combats are betleH fights. I need a few more people to respond to the B/C, D yes/no thing. At this point I am thinking of a bonus to offense for all combats (to reduce the number of misses for everyone) and doing the FS/FB thing with just a bonus to Defense for FS. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 10th, 2005, 12:40am I have done some changes to the code. Basically, the First Strike and First Blood options are in there. I put the code in to bump up everyone's offense, but then I found a bug that explained all the misses. Basically, as you get tired your defense goes down and you get hit more. Once you are easy to hit, your ability to attack gets worse. There was a bug that made it only mess with your attack. So when K'Hare fights K'rahl, they both lose their ability to hit and still can block, if the match goes long enough. So matches either end quick or have lots of misses. Its fixed now. Some other bugs: The bonus to the person with initiative (note that fighting dirty/honorably or not affects that) was not getting included. If both people miss you were supposed to get tired faster. This is to handle the case of two bad fighters. The idea is two bad fighters can't fight as long. But the code was making you more tired when both hit so it made fights between two skilled opponents longer. So the program is updated. I still haven't worked out how to refuse a fight. K'Hare isn't going to fight Ness for first strike. What's the point? But First Blood has more teeth now. And while you are here, everyone should be getting email when challenged. If not, let me know. But the problem is related to your email settings in your bio. I added combat effectiveness. All this is is the number hits and blocks divided by the hits, blocks, and misses... but over time, its a good hint as to how good people are. The hint has always been there, just not so obvious. Now Ing has a way to do odds. The code is getting much more complex so lets test it. Report anything weird. I probably will rewrite it after the tourney.... sometime next year. Basically I keep adding little tweaks and so there are some efficientcies I can get by rebuilding it with what I learned. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 10th, 2005, 1:16am khare shouldnt fight a noob basicly : noob novice medium advanced master dahar if there are 2 class difference then you woldnt be allowed to fight each other. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 10th, 2005, 4:33pm also slight update - chrystal fox wants to join this - create a bio for her if you could |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by ejmonahan on Dec 12th, 2005, 1:33pm Ta`pez wrote:
Yes please My bio can be found here http://www.mehhaj.bravohost.org/main.php?pageref=bio&crewid=74&PHPSESSID=d2d2f42ab1e4dc244540b1695be5d6c8 |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 12th, 2005, 3:17pm I haven't added any of these extra people because I don't really want to have the crews of every other ship on KDB. My original plan was to put a sparring room on each ship and then maybe have another one on the BFKC site that had everyone on it. Setting it up this way means that each CO could review his crewman and make sure the stats were at least consistent. Right now, what stops Ness from setting his skill up to the max? I don't know how much of a combat monster he is so how can I check it and why would I want to? ta'pez might allow an ex-borg or robot crewman who gets the strength bonus... why do I want to verify that this guy has his settings right? The point of putting a few other crewman on the KDB page was a temp thing so ta'pez and others could test it out. I added all of the crew that ta'pez had in db.cgi. I added a few of Satian's that I knew were into betleH combat (i.e. Tucker). After the next betleH tourney (and maybe before) I will setup a betleH room for Satian's ship and I will come up with a way to link all of his crew to a more central one. I will do the same for KDB. But one cost of using the program is using my bio program. That's how its configured. Maybe I will setup a way to be listed on the BFKC site if you aren't on a ship that uses db.cgi. But I have to work out a plan for it. Sometime soon I will be redoing the KDB crew list. At that point, I suspect only the active KDB players and the CH crew will have access to the Sparring thing until I decide how to deal with the 'extras'. Also, I am probably going to change how glory works. Right now, you get extra glory for challenging someone whose skill is much higher. ness has taken that to an extreme. (Everyone has noticed the new stat page, right?) Most of the time people should be sparring and Glory is reduced. The disarm fight would be a more serious fight and should have a greater chance of gettting you injured. I have to figure out how to deal with that. Glory is reduced for all fights but Disarm fights. So either I am going to reduce glory for fights where you lose, or I am going to report damage in Disarm fights and maybe restrict how much damage you take each day or week. In character, the only person who is fighting full out, with the danger of real injury is roS. So he ought to have the most glory. I am happy to see that the dishonor column on the stats page is almost empty. K'Hare and Suran have some but that's because I did four matches, at different honor settings to hint at the effects of GH and VD. Outside of that, no one else but the truely dishonorable have gained any dishonor. So, any comments on how I should deal with the sparring rooms? The code requires you be on a db.cgi page somewhere. I could make one giant central one for every PC and NPC in BFKC. And then figure out how to deal with the automation of it. But then what keeps ej from claiming high skill when I think he should be below roS? Do I make this something that only works on KDB and CH and then there is some interaction between some from CH and KDB because I link it up when the CH visits? Does everyone understand the problem? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 12th, 2005, 3:20pm And a side note. You do know that crystal would be barred from entry of KDB, right? I don't mean I would not allow her as a character (though I wouldn't but not for the reason you think), but if she tried to get onto KDB she'd be blocked by security. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 12th, 2005, 3:56pm K`Hare totlh wrote:
You are being cryptic -and she already spend a considerable amount of time on KDB - PM me if you want to elaborate on this. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 12th, 2005, 4:34pm See... this is an example of what I mean. Anyone want to explain why crystal would be stopped at the gates? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 12th, 2005, 4:53pm How long is your list K'Hare? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 12th, 2005, 5:45pm Which list? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 12th, 2005, 6:00pm the list of stickler rules - honestly if you want people to follow it - letting them know what they are would be a good this - you know - the folder with Simm FAQ would be an ideal place to post them in |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 12th, 2005, 7:22pm OK, I was hoping someone else would post what I meant. I know many in my crew know. But this is why people need to check with me before coming to KDB. EJ did and sadly I had to tell him I didn't have time to deal with his arrival because of when he showed up. Drake didn't and we saw the problem that caused. KDB is a Klingon environment, so no replicators for the most part. That is mentioned on the base info pages. Yes, they are incomplete, but there is just so much time in the day. If I hadn't been overwhelmed when EJ tried to go to KDB this is what would have happened. 1. I would have said, OK, visit, and I would have insited on a bio appearing on the KDB pages first. Everyone who shows up on KDB should have a bio. If the CH visits I will point people at the CH manifest. Some NPCs have no bios. Mostly the unamed background people. I try to put up a bio for all the named NPCs. Reminds, me, I don't think I ever put on up for ma'tar. Oops. The point is, had crystal gotten the stamp to come aboard, a bio would have been posted somewhere. 2. Upon entering, security, i.e. me would have read the bio. The fact that crystal is a telepath would have been noted and she would have gotten special treatment. This is a well known paranoia of K'Hare's. Ask Tank Chandler what happened at the second betleH tourney. http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Starbase-KDB/message/733 http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Starbase-KDB/message/746 http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Starbase-KDB/message/756 I didn't explain to Tank why this happened until after the tourney. I couldn't believe that no one asked me why this happened. He was one of the few betazoids that attended. He got the treatment. Anyone from a telepathic race is going to get the treatment. Yes, some will slip by. But there is this UNWRITTEN rule about it. Had I had time for crystal to show up, to deal with it, that's what would have happened. So I can only assume that crystal showed up on the base and someone goofed and they she never used her telepathy or telekinesis in a way that was noticed by security. Ta'pez should know there are telepathy counter measures that are still unexplained on the base. There is at least one plot there that hasn't hatched. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 12th, 2005, 8:06pm Sir Elton John wanted to visit? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 12th, 2005, 8:09pm Not quiet, krahl but none the less - while you reading the bio is interesting - as a matter of fact most security would not know they are telepathic. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 12th, 2005, 8:32pm If the race was know to have telepaths they'd know that. If they are a member of Starfleet its part of their service record unless they hide it. The meH'Haj bio reads as if its no big surprise that she is a telepath. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 12th, 2005, 8:48pm K`Hare totlh wrote:
To what extent would the security be aware of this - i mean i assume theres something like a passanger manifest - but lowly guard on the KDB station wouldnt know this - i am not saying that it would not. edit: let me elaborate on this whenever a ship lands you would have several manifest submitted by the ship. This would be passanger crew cargo each manifest would have certain details about these people but i doubt that this would be something whether the dock security would have access to their service record. more importantly would they know it - the question is is Chrystals race apparent and if all of her fellow whatever are emphaths. The TSA dood @ BWI asks for my ID - most of those IDs dont have my background (i.e drivers licence doesnt say i am a foreigner - though my name might be a tip off on some) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 12th, 2005, 9:13pm Everyone who comes on the base is checked. You walk on, you have some sort of ID. You are scanned for weapons. Your biology is not scanned. But your identity is known. If you don't have an identity, you are looked at closer. Somehow, people have identification. What is canon is that those in starfleet on the KDF hand over a PADD with there info. So coronel nerys comes to KDB. She hands over an ID that says she is a vulcan diplomat. Security would balk at that. Or if she claimed to be human. They'd look at her nose and say.. I don't think so. If someone came to the base and identified themselves as a betazed, security would take an interest. Note that this wasn't true in K'rahl's reign (as far as I know). It certainly wasn't as overt. The K'Hears incident just made it worse. There is still security on the base preventing transport unless the base is in control. People are looked at a little more closely. A security officer will scan you if he thinks you need it but his medical scan isn't going to get transferred to the database unless there is a reason. This is how ta'pez and K'Hare stayed hidden for so long. crystal came to the base with a federation service record and her business was to await transfer to the meH'Haj. I would have had fun locking her up in security if I had the time to deal with her when she came to KDB. So this time, she got lucky and security either watched her covertly and she slipped in because one guard wasn't paying attention. But consider. You enter the base. Your 'passport' is scanned and logged. The main computer is setup to flag problems. YES! We profile!. The computer should have blipped and said this is a telepath, perform the telepath protocols. Think of it this way. You are entering the US and there is a terrorist flag on anyone of your ethic background flying in from Saudi Arabia. Would the computers catch that? Would the security officer at the boarder need to know about it? No, the computer would flag you and tell him what to do. No, this isn't posted anywhere.... well it is now, in here. But this is why I told EJ I didn't have time to deal with him when he showed up. Normally I would have checked the bio and caught this and surprised him with anal probes and other security measures. I would have pointed him to the more overt info (the stuff in the KDB database). If Drake had pinged me before posting I would have said, no, I am too busy, probably. But if I had the time I would have pointed her(?) to the KDB info. And hopefully that would have meant the bull riding thing would never have happened. And yes, the bull riding thing did not happen on KDB. fed entertainment is not on KDB. Klingons have their own stuff. The sparring room, the tables with the knives for arm wrestling, etc. And no tribbles either. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 12th, 2005, 9:28pm In my day I'd make strangers stay on their ships. I even insisted on boarding some. But you are right K'Hare, I did not routinely trawl for Empaths or Telepaths. Given what I went through with some of those... I should have. Security is tight on any base. Expect Federation egos to get bruised on a Klingon one. Not only that but who has the decision on how tight security goes? The CO. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 12th, 2005, 10:30pm If you notice - some folks have been staying away from that dammed station |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 12th, 2005, 10:50pm And I'm sorry I don't have time to do more, but I do what I can. A Klingon base isn't going to have a bull riding machine on it. Even if someone brought there own as cargo, it wouldn't be unpacked unless there was some event, like a federation convention where there were supposed to be cultural displays. I don't mean to keep harping on the bull riding thing. It was just the most recent thing. Sure its fun and would be an amusing thing on a fed base, but I have a responsibility to establish a Klingon feel and its not a Klingon thing. If a player wanted to run a merchant who opens a bar and he puts one in, and it becomes a focal point of challenges and such, I might go with it. But as a side thing to just post as there without consulting me.... no. That's not how I run my simm. Some people let players have more control and artistic freedom. I am not one of them. I've half a mind to just kill the whole BFKC concept or maybe quit the base. I don't know. I am just tired of all the grief I get. Or maybe its just the holidays. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 12th, 2005, 11:01pm Ta`pez wrote:
i was saying this IC as for the grief thing - if you were to define things ahead of time it would be a lot easier - I was talking about a frame work - we can continue in the CO area |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 12th, 2005, 11:07pm But K'Hare has defined things Ta'pez. Its a Klingon environment. That IS definition. All people need to consider is... 'Is it Klingon?' If the answer is 'Yes' - then you might find it. If the answer is 'No' - then you probably won't UNLESS something says you can find it. There is a Ferengi with a bar for example. He is known by many to be a holo-programer. Those that don't know it might expect a Ferengi to have holoprograms. So if one went there they might then be able to fine a whole plethora of non-Klingon things that are not really on the base - without confusion or disruption. And K'Hare doesn't need a framework to state his base is a Klingon environment. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 13th, 2005, 1:29am K`rahl wrote:
We all strive for the klingon enviroment - however that is not what i meant - it was a matter of defining how close or loose our ties are and how things are going to get handled when other peoples simm members come to visit or pass the station. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by ejmonahan on Dec 13th, 2005, 3:38am Wow If I knew what a debate my request would of became, I would of never ask, If Telepaths are so ....for lack of a better word misunderstood, I would of never asked for Crystal to be placed in the sparring simm. With that into account I guess Metallic and Tait Gar (A Breen) two of my other characters would be excluded from part-taking in these events, leaving only my Small Human Female Character Jordin Monahan to be allowed to enter. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Q`olavraH la` on Dec 13th, 2005, 7:12am Just because a question 'might' cause a debate is no reason not to ask it. We are Klingons, we argue, it is a fact. K'Hare will not quit because I will not allow it. I have spoken, and so it shall be. *flexs just to make sure everyone understands she means business* |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 13th, 2005, 2:25pm Q`olavraH la` wrote:
Q'olavraH has spoken! So shall it be. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by ToreQ on Dec 13th, 2005, 8:30pm Quote:
Hmmm.... From the way these guys respond to you Q'ol, you would think they are worshiping a Goddess. (Interesting) :D |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Q`olavraH la` on Dec 13th, 2005, 9:01pm I am not called tlhIngan be'Qun for nothing. *wonders how this guy didn't hear about her Goddess like status?* |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 13th, 2005, 9:15pm Q`olavraH la` wrote:
not a regular BF forums visitor |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Dec 14th, 2005, 12:05am Oooo Awsome!! No more First Blood/First Strike Combats with Ness!! |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 14th, 2005, 4:40am I woke up this morning and the solution to the stack of FS/FB matches hit me. Actually, I had the idea of the solution, but this morning the way to do it easily hit me. So its there now. The idea is someone challenges you to a match and you are replying: oh yeah.... lets up it XXX. The next obvious step from disarm would be knockout... or death. Not ready to put that in. Eventually I will do something with glory... probably reduce what you get if you don't win or maybe just get you one point for challenging a stronger opponent. And eventually there will be a way to refuse a match which will cost you glory or honor. I might put in something that limits how many outstanding matches you have too. And I will have a way to keep your overall win/loss while still removing matches from the list. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 14th, 2005, 8:11pm I am thinking of adding granularity to the strength-o-meter. Instead of Human Half-Vulcan Vulcan what should I have as the ladder of strength? The following is off my bumps: Elaysians - need exoskeleton to walk Weak Human Human fit Half Klingon Klingon Half Vulcan ex-drone Vulcan Hirogen Augment Not Allowed Not Allowed Data Maybe Half Klingon should be the same as Human fit (arnold). Half Vulcan? Any steps I left out? The result of doing this would probably be that the Vulcan's would get a better advantage over Humans than they have now but not better than now against Klingons. And Klingons would have a slightly better advantage vs. humans. And if you are something weird, you could just select what is close. comments? steps in the ladder to add? remove? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 14th, 2005, 10:11pm http://kdb.batlh.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?shipname=challenge&crewman=challenge_done_1134512656738 Someone had a good day. I lost three in a row... maybe its a bug in the escalation code... (note, that would make no sense, that was a joke). |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 15th, 2005, 2:32am The granularity idea is interesting - and valid. My bones are much tougher than, say Bogal's. That odd skin of the fish you have on your b'rel might make some difference too, if you can get him onto the sparring stage. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by ejmonahan on Dec 16th, 2005, 5:42pm K`Hare totlh wrote:
Cool so Metallic is equal to an ex-drone or close and Crystal being an reayan is more like an half klingon, in strenght. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 16th, 2005, 8:40pm First, the point of posting that progression was for suggestions on how to implement it, not to discuss individual characters. So people, post. I can't implement it if people don't comment. I can just do it my way but this is your chance for input. Reayans. Telepathic, Telekenetic, slightly stronger, live 180 years... sucks to be human doesn't it. The thing that is supposed to balance them is they are pacifists. Oh wait... they had a war, now they are all freedom fighters. I don't think I'd let a player play one if they didn't play up the pacifist thing. The problem with these guys and sparring is ... they cheat. If they win, you just blame it on their telepathy, if they lose, you gain some glory. But yeah, a reayan would be human fit or half-klingon. As for metallic, I've assume he has a cybernetic arm, not a total skeletal replacement. With just a replaced arm he's human fit, and that's based on using Jayne for his bio pic. If he does have the skeletal replacement I'd have to ask how. Is he an ex-borg? If so, he'd have the same problem as crystal plus, he is dead. Who wants to fight a dead guy? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by JakeNess on Dec 16th, 2005, 9:27pm isn't it easier to defeat a dead guy? |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 17th, 2005, 1:14am I'd not spar against a Drone... regardless of the fact that one of my friends is married to one and his House Lord is one... and that I pledged to protect said House Lord if required... OK I might consider it if it was the right Drone... |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 17th, 2005, 1:26am K`rahl wrote:
K'brd Lok are always so picky look what it has brought upon them...hopefully the p'Dra'on will be wiser |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 17th, 2005, 2:11am There has been a request that I add the chance of disqualification to the program. The easiest thing for me to do would be to put in a chance of disqual when a fighter 'takes a cheap shot'. I could make it when he tries or just when it works. This would mean a chance to lose when fighting very dirty. Should I add that? Is so, what chance of disqual? The other way I could go is to add a third level of dishonor... that gives an extra bonus to hit and introduces the chance to lose by disqual. If so, what chance? Comments? If not one comments, I will do the easier first option. The thing to keep in mind is I don't want to make dishonor totally useless... that is, it has to be worth the risk or no one will use it and then we may as well not have it at all. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by JakeNess on Dec 21st, 2005, 1:57am Howabout dynamic ability levels? like a .0000X up in skill level for each combat you participate in? Because the more you play, the better you should get to a slight degree. When a player changed their skills in the bio, all the decimal bonuses would be deleted. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`Hare totlh on Dec 21st, 2005, 1:44pm This was already discussed in this thread. It isn't the point of this program. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 21st, 2005, 3:50pm that would mean that somebody who picked up a batleth 3 days ago IC would be of equal strenght with somebody who has been simming 5 years. - so no jake - dont think that will be something khare would implement any time soon |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 21st, 2005, 5:51pm Ta`pez wrote:
K'brd Lok are always so picky look what it has brought upon them...hopefully the p'Dra'on will be wiser[/quote] Try spelling K'brd'Lok right just once... go on, try. And as K'Trol led the K'brd'Lok and now leads the p'Dra'on I can't see why you think the leadership will be different. Be interesting when you actually get a grasp on these complex subjects.. |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Kral on Dec 21st, 2005, 6:33pm Has the thought of maybe putting a choice for how determined you are come up? There are times I challenge light heartedly and times I want to 'wring someone's neck'! *Glares at Ness* I know can do that with the honor-dishonr choices.. But even when fighting with honor, there are times your going to be pushed more to make a good blow than other times. :D |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by Ta`pez on Dec 21st, 2005, 10:28pm K`rahl wrote:
K'brd Lok are always so picky look what it has brought upon them...hopefully the p'Dra'on will be wiser[/quote] Try spelling K'brd'Lok right just once... go on, try. And as K'Trol led the K'brd'Lok and now leads the p'Dra'on I can't see why you think the leadership will be different. Be interesting when you actually get a grasp on these complex subjects.. [/quote] i appologize for mission out on ' =i am sure such a grave missspelling error will hunt me to the grave. the leadership will be different - the makeup of the house is |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Dec 21st, 2005, 10:44pm Ta`pez wrote:
This one worked (decided to point out a few good comebacks - I probably won't highlight all...) |
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Title: Re: A little something I engineered. Post by K`rahl on Jan 3rd, 2006, 1:34pm I see Flim finally won... and just look who he beat... If only I were a betting male. |
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