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A little something I engineered. (Read 43581 times)
K`Hare `aj
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #45 - on:
Nov 14
th
, 2005, 9:53pm
Leerless Feeder
Posts: 2364
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This is an example of a faily even fight. This shows what I was going for:
http://kdb.batlh.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?shipname=challenge&crewman=challenge_ done_1131998257499
Basically you see both got honor. At one point Tak' was ahead and giving up initiative. Later, T'Lai got several little hits in a row and had the advantage and then started giving up initiative.
Try fighting neutral a few times and see how the combat changes.
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K'Hare 'aj
CO of Klach D'kel Brakt Station
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SajidaKajada
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #46 - on:
Nov 15
th
, 2005, 6:36am
I Can't Believe It's
Not Targh!
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WOOO SAJI IS THE FIRST TO GET A KNOCKOUT RESULT OUT OF ALL THE BATTLES SO FAR WIPIIIII ( Thanks to KHare for giving me the heads up on that
)
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Sajida Sogh
Chief Engineering Officer
IKS meH'Haj
"I am Klingon... If you doubt it, a demonstration can be arranged."
-- Worf
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K`Hare `aj
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #47 - on:
Nov 15
th
, 2005, 6:42am
Leerless Feeder
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Saji hit the rarest condition ... ok, Toran hit is too... or got hit by it...
http://kdb.batlh.com/cgi-bin/db/db.cgi?shipname=challenge&crewman=challenge_ done_1132009375516
Yes, its an improbable event that can allow anyone to beat anyone.
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K'Hare 'aj
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Ta`pez
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #48 - on:
Nov 15
th
, 2005, 10:38am
cheng joH
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somebody got their ass handed to them .
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Ta'pez 'ech
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taH pagh taHbe' net SaHtaH
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James Hunter
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #49 - on:
Nov 15
th
, 2005, 10:58am
Human. Don't mess.
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Quote from K`Hare totlh
on Nov 14
th
, 2005, 6:04pm:
I'd just like some input on what people think is important. Would it be OK to save summary info and delete the actual match after one week... or one day or ...?
You could always have the text of the battle emailed to the fighters (if they click the 'yes' option) so they can read it if they want but it doesn't take up your space.
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Lieutenant j.g. James Hunter
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Ta`pez
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #50 - on:
Nov 15
th
, 2005, 3:12pm
cheng joH
Posts: 1985
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Quote from James_Hunter
on Nov 15
th
, 2005, 10:58am:
Quote from K`Hare totlh
on Nov 14
th
, 2005, 6:04pm:
I'd just like some input on what people think is important. Would it be OK to save summary info and delete the actual match after one week... or one day or ...?
You could always have the text of the battle emailed to the fighters (if they click the 'yes' option) so they can read it if they want but it doesn't take up your space.
well that still takes bandwith - though i might be that it takes up bandwith once
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Ta'pez 'ech
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taH pagh taHbe' net SaHtaH
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K`Hare `aj
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #51 - on:
Nov 15
th
, 2005, 4:39pm
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Well, I like everyone being able to read the text if the fight is interesting. The one with K'rahl and Khoal sparring is a good example of why. Khoal should not have one. It was unlikely, but possible.
But it does show one of the differences between sparring and a regular match to disarm. Relative to each other, with sparring its easier to hit and block and your stamina is higher. What that did in the match (
here
), since both were fighting with honor, was K'rahl kept stepping back so he didn't take advantage... over time this allowed Khoal to 'catch up' until both fighters were tired. In the end, K'rahl had the better chance of scoring a solid hit to end the match but while probability was on his side, Khoal just got there first.
Its something to keep in mind. When you are Sparring, the matches will have longer turns and more hits and blocks... and the odds against the weaker fighter are lower. There is no loss of honor there... that's kinda the point. The fight to disarm is more 'serious'. I guess another way to say it is the skill plays a greater role in a disarm match than sparring.
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K'Hare 'aj
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Ningas
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #52 - on:
Nov 15
th
, 2005, 9:40pm
I'm short but I'm at
the controls not
you!
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So I guess If I want Metallic in on this I should act soon!
But I Got Crystal here that could use some practice.
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bu' NinGas
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SajidaKajada
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #53 - on:
Nov 15
th
, 2005, 9:53pm
I Can't Believe It's
Not Targh!
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The more the merrier i'm just glad I made Ta'pez happy there hee hee (and myself too!) Oh and KHare love the new additions under the names of people. I kinda like the demigod status lol
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Sajida Sogh
Chief Engineering Officer
IKS meH'Haj
"I am Klingon... If you doubt it, a demonstration can be arranged."
-- Worf
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K`rahl
BFKC CO
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #54 - on:
Nov 15
th
, 2005, 10:42pm
To err is Human, I'm
glad I'm a Klingon
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K'rahl is a rather fit fellow as you know. Khoal has a racial advantage, partial perhaps but its there. So in the long haul of a protracted spar K'rahl likely would tire before Khoal. Certainly K'rahl tires before the lighter, and faster, Q'olavraH.
Given the second spar though... Clearly K'rahl was attempting to learn something and teach Khoal something too.
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K'rahl Son of Kur'rk
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Kral
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #55 - on:
Nov 15
th
, 2005, 11:00pm
batlh Daqawlu'taH
Posts: 454
Truthfuly I don't think it takes enough into count. for example, one My own character, the fact that he didn't start learning how to fight with a bathleth till he was 10 probably effects things greatly on determening where he falls. But same time he trained hard, realy hard to get to catch up to his fellow warriors. Another.. while his rank is not high, he has been in servic for a while so he's not inexperienced. The fact that qul'yIt's life has been rougher than most has also toughened him up to a point.
But anyways... Think could probably at least use some kind of scaling for like how determined someone would be. How well trained and how often. etc..
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Kral HoD
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K`rahl
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #56 - on:
Nov 15
th
, 2005, 11:08pm
To err is Human, I'm
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Next, people are going to suggest we Imperials have easy lives...
Does Ta'pez look like he's had an easy life? Does K'rahl?
Actually on KDB who is the most pampered... Interesting thought. Different answers will be correct, from different angles.
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K'rahl Son of Kur'rk
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K`Hare `aj
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #57 - on:
Nov 15
th
, 2005, 11:37pm
Leerless Feeder
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I can only take so much into account... but why do you (qul'yIt) has trained harder than others? You don't think the students of KDB have trained hard?
There really isn't a way to quantify it. My long term goal is to have 100 questions you must answer where each is yes/no or something like that. And somehow, in some non obvious way it builds your character profile.
So Khoal has a slight advantage over K'rahl in strength, even given their size, and Rakar... is even stronger. I had to make a choice about how much that affects things.
Yes, I used rank to some extent. Why? Well, for K'rahl to survive to 'ech he must be a reasonably good fighter. That's just Klingon culture. But it isn't fed culture... so what can I do? I still have to assume that starfleet has requirements for officers that include a certain amount of skill. So yes, rank matters. It makes an argument that the character must have a better skill than when he was new. The problem with that is this: compare Ing to.... ah.... K'mala. OK, she is inactive... but the difference is Ing was a character who was made as a cadet and who has simmed for a few years. K'mala started as a la'. Because CO characters start higher. So should Ing, who was a cadet at the last tourney be so much worse than K'mala. Yeah, in character, but what about Commander West, a TF86 CO who was also a new CO character on a new simm. What I am getting at is some characters start at a higher rank... so just rank isn't simple enough. But even so, the character of K'mala was supposed to be a good fighter... she was a Klingon CO afterall.
Another thing in the program is characters get an advantage for having attended betleH comps. It makes sense... you go to something where lots of people spar and you get exposure to new fighting styles. It's also a bonus that encourages people to bring back characters who have been there before... to develop some history. So this gives K'Hare and ta'pez a slight advantage over K'rahl rig ht now. I will probably remove the bonus from the sparring on ship sites... I just don't want to have too many versions right now. Later I will add code to pick which weapon you fight with so you can be a better meqleH fighter or so Aklev can kick some butt in that weird Andorian long sword.
The training age thing... yeah, it can hurt you but how much worse do you think a 20 year old who started at 10 is verses one who started at 8? Its not realyl going to affect you. But a character who has just been fighting for a year can't claim to be a daHar master.
So, I do want to make it more complex but I don't want to make it so complex that its impossible to predict who wins, and that the in-character weaker character always wins. Who can decide if K'Hare, ta'pez, K'rahl, or Q'ol is the best fighter? All I can do is try to make it work reasonably well for honest players. At the tourney I disallow the 20th level paladin/assasins but really, if a bunch of players want to make unreasonable characters then let them. It just wont be much fun. I try to make a program that makes an objective referee for reasonable players with reasonable characters.
If K'Hare, ta'pez, or K'rahl ever do have a death match, this program wont decide the winner. That sort of thing will be decided by the writers for dramtic effect.
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K'Hare 'aj
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Kral
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #58 - on:
Nov 16
th
, 2005, 12:12am
batlh Daqawlu'taH
Posts: 454
True and I understand your point. But the 100 questions or however many is a good Goal I guess lol. But I understand there is complexity to it. Still with enough question it will make it difficult for anyone to determin how to make their character stronger etc. As for prediciting who wins. You don't want any person to be able to do that easily. What would be the fun if you already could predict what is going to happen.
But despite all this there is one thing I mentioned that could at least be considered, and have mentioned it number of times. That you not rank skill by trek characters. It has no clear definition for one. It leaves the person wandering.. well how strong are these characetrs comparing to. Is Martok less skilled than Worf... How much stonger.. I mean it realy depends on the person's veiwpoint on how strong these characters skills are. I know that if I was to compare my veiwpoints to what you have there it's not an even scale. To me there more of them with strong skills than with weak or in between. Now if you said 1, couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, 2, hit a barn but not a target.... to 5: hits stright in center of target repeatly... (Something to equivilant) think make more sense. Compare it to something that involves skill rather some character...
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Kral HoD
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K`Hare `aj
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Re: A little something I engineered.
Reply #59 - on:
Nov 16
th
, 2005, 12:32am
Leerless Feeder
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Quote from Kral
on Nov 16
th
, 2005, 12:12am:
... Still with enough question it will make it difficult for anyone to determin how to make their character stronger etc. ...
But despite all this there is one thing I mentioned that could at least be considered, and have mentioned it number of times. That you not rank skill by trek characters. ...
Why do I want people to know how to make their character stronger? My goal is you just answer all the questions I come up with based on the in character answers and let the program decide.
But in general, I think the better answer is obvious. Are you from a strong race? Well, stronger people probably do better. If I added, does your character workout to improve his stamina? Would anyone but Ing answer No? The better answer is obvious.
This is also the first I have heard of the complaint about using star trek characters. Maybe you posted that before and I missed it. Maybe that explains Ing's response of liking Quark on the list. So... you can ignore the names and just use the numbers. On a scale of 1-9, how would you rate your own skill? Remember, 9 is daHar master.
Really, that high? So you can't get much better as you age? How sad for you, but I digress.
The examples on there are just a guide for people who don't know what to put. It is called.... flavor text. By putting Worf or Martok or Gowron on there I hope I avoid players with new young characters from putting 8 because Worf is supposed to be as good as a young Klingon can get. He is special. Alexander is on there because we saw him fight on screen... same with Quark. But if you put a 6 or more, you are saying you can safely fight with canon trek characters.
If you can come up with a better system and your name isn't Ing, then tell me. Let's discuss it. Let's discuss how to make people consistently score themselves. I could try to code up D&D or d20 or GURPS or Hero but these are all designed for interactive use. But suppose I did try. What level of fighter is K'Hare or Ta'pez or K'rahl or Sajada or So'l? I could simply code up D&D and make rank = level... but that hoses all the KDB cadets. Or how do we agree what Tucker's skill is? Tucker who you say? Exactly my point I say back. He is a CH character who trains with the betleH using the holodeck. Maybe he has done more since the last time I looked... how can make sure he picks the 'right' value.
The system can only do so much. My goal here is to make it better over time by adding complexity. In the end, its just supposed to be fun.
P.S. If you are Ing I simply wont try to implement the system you come up with ... no doubt it would choke the server.
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K'Hare 'aj
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